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No Risk/Reward in Faction Warfare....
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Solutio Letum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2013-10-29 14:22:44 UTC
Madbuster73 wrote:
FW has a disease.

FW was meant to provide PVP and some Isk for those that are involved.
But there are so many alts now from people that arent even in FW but just do it for the easy LP.
Because it is way too easy.

At the moment a 1 week old char can farm a medium plex in a stabbed and cloaked t1 frigate.
It should not be possible to kill the Medium NPC in an unskilled t1 frigate....

Its ok if they can do the Novices, because thats what they are there for, but making 40 million isk in 20 minutes by easily killing the Medium NPC in an unskilled,stabbed and cloaked T1 frigate is just too easy

This doesn't reflect the Risk/Reward policy that CCP always seems to aim for.....

And this is easy to solve....

make the Novice Outpost NPC able to tank 50 dps. (so noobs can still kill it and run it)
make the Small Outpost NPC able to tank 150 dps (so you actually need a dessie or well fitted frig to kill it) (or 2 people)
make the Medium Outpost NPC able to tank 250 dps (so you actually need a well fitted Dessie/AF/Cruiser to kill it. (or 2 people)

That way people in stabbed t1 frigs either have to ship up or can only run novices wich is fine by me.
But it makes the good LP only available for people that bring a decent ship.


Lols, ok then, 250 dps?..... any accounts with 1 week of trainning can out put that, instead you'll have tons of dessy's moving around.
Even if large outpost require bigger ships, they'll run around in there T3s, finish NPC's, and sit there alts in sites.

Its easy one way or the other unless you turn it into a PvE sport, then it just becomes like incursions.

Also, fact stay's that the reason i like it easy is because new players can run them, and then meet pvp.
Also i did often more then not kill these "impossible" to catch frigates, just get an interceptor, and catch these ass holes, then kill them. After this patch patrolling will be so easy.
Degnar Oskold
Moira.
#42 - 2013-10-29 15:05:09 UTC
Solutio Letum wrote:


Lols, ok then, 250 dps?..... any accounts with 1 week of trainning can out put that, instead you'll have tons of dessy's moving around.
Even if large outpost require bigger ships, they'll run around in there T3s, finish NPC's, and sit there alts in sites.


That's exactly why it's good.

A new character can easily do 250 dps, but not while in a warp core stabbed ship. Therefore the content remains available to newbros, while removing the capability for stabbed newbros to do this.

T3s won't work, because they can't enter most of the plexes. They could use their mains in regular ships, but then they become vulnerable to being caught on gate moving around etc, plus many farmers do not keep their mains in lowsec - they wouldn't make the journey down for it.
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#43 - 2013-10-29 15:45:29 UTC
Madbuster73 wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
Madbuster73 wrote:
FW has a disease.

FW was meant to provide PVP and some Isk for those that are involved.
But there are so many alts now from people that arent even in FW but just do it for the easy LP.
Because it is way too easy.

At the moment a 1 week old char can farm a medium plex in a stabbed and cloaked t1 frigate.
It should not be possible to kill the Medium NPC in an unskilled t1 frigate....

Its ok if they can do the Novices, because thats what they are there for, but making 40 million isk in 20 minutes by easily killing the Medium NPC in an unskilled,stabbed and cloaked T1 frigate is just too easy

This doesn't reflect the Risk/Reward policy that CCP always seems to aim for.....

And this is easy to solve....

make the Novice Outpost NPC able to tank 50 dps. (so noobs can still kill it and run it)
make the Small Outpost NPC able to tank 150 dps (so you actually need a dessie or well fitted frig to kill it) (or 2 people)
make the Medium Outpost NPC able to tank 250 dps (so you actually need a well fitted Dessie/AF/Cruiser to kill it. (or 2 people)

That way people in stabbed t1 frigs either have to ship up or can only run novices wich is fine by me.
But it makes the good LP only available for people that bring a decent ship.


or just reinstate the old plex's cuz you deffinatly couldnt be a noob to do them



NO, because the old plexes had like 20 Rats in them wich interfered with PVP, and PVP is what we want....

NO, blalbalblablalbalblablalblablalblablalblablalblablalbalb pvp solo bla balbalblablablabla

first of all, back in the day, minor plexs were so EASY you didnt even use your tank you could solo in these any time.. and solo DID HAPPEN
secondly the medium plex PVP never had solo, and if you believe otherwise, you are WRONG. there was always a ship to do the plex and several back up to pvp.
thirdly, the most reward of all the major plex, had something like 40mil in loot in it and it took a gang to do it(basically a lvl4. and NO major plex fight EVER was 1 on 1 bc, it was ALWAYS gang vs gang.

so pvp is what you want? stop no skill farmers?

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#44 - 2013-10-29 23:39:33 UTC
YES!
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#45 - 2013-10-30 03:11:59 UTC
Ships with Warp Stabs or Cloaks cannot run timer down. There, problem solved. They can still be in the plex but cannot actually do anything.

They can still align out though.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#46 - 2013-10-30 14:52:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Syrias Bizniz
Solution to farming,

simply spoken:


Introduce a mechanic that will grant a LP Payout upon completion of a plex directly proportional to the amount of time spent within the plex and actively running the timer. Warping out and cloaking will wipe the 'time spent' attribute of a player.


---> Warpstabbed or cloaky players who have no chance in fighting off intruders are forced to commit an act that will harshly reduce their LP payout.

---> In order to get LP, people will have to bring a ship that is able to deal with intruders (fight).

---> More people staying in Plexes for getting the LP, more fights.

---> Shifting Warzonecontrol is an act that is usually not a byproduct of LP farming, but a product of commitment.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#47 - 2013-10-30 15:23:53 UTC
Another approach:


No NPC in site.

When timer hits 0:00, the NPC actually spawns - by far tankier than the ones currently around.
The LP you get are not from completing the timer, they are from killing the NPC.

You can run timers down as you want, in order to get the LP, you have to be the guy to shoot down the rat. Other people might come in, even defending militia, and just wipe the NPC on their own in order to deny LP.
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2013-10-30 16:14:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Ghost Phius
Madbuster73 wrote:
Ghost Phius wrote:
Hmm....another change the rules against certain playstyles to benefit my playstyle in a sandbox game....er..om


HELL NO



Sounds like you are using Stabbed/Cloaky T1 frigates to run your plexes....



Yes I am stabbed not cloaked and if you read my bio it is clear that I make no bones about it either.

This reminds me of what Taoist Dragon wrote on the subject in one of the MANY locked threads on this topic.
Taoist Dragon wrote:

Give it up.

FW has had all the major changes it's going to get for a while. CCP has to move onto other areas that are way more broken than FW, dullsec for example.

If you seriously don't like how FW works nowadays, go fly somewhere else.....


AMEN!
Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#49 - 2013-11-07 20:45:00 UTC
Bump


This needs to be fixed....
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#50 - 2013-11-08 03:20:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Madbuster73 wrote:
Bump


This needs to be fixed....




your issues are fixes to what was "broken" with FW in the past.


Low sp noobs....fixed an issue where pre-buff FW kind of worked better with high skills. Those I knew who ran it in the old days favored high skill hacs or pirates boats. One friend swore by his high skilled ishtar. Some e-war resistance (drone boat and all), decently agile for clearing camps or gtfo if jumped in site, and drone use limited ammo use to not have to sweat choke points at stations to refill as much.

This tied to a second issue. Payout. More work/expense to do it and returns not all that good. FW used to pay out like ass. Created 2 problems. Noobs couldn't afford to start up in it or run it long with ship losses or startup costs of living in low sec. Mid experienced players were going why bother. Ergo FW had a much lower population as many said.....


Well i need high skill high power ships to run the content decent. I need the sp to fly it. And the payout sucks. I could build up to this wonderful experience or.....go to a wh or 0.0. Noobs just got the 5 mil sp most entry 0.0 corps need and skipped the foreplay of fw. 0.0 if a competent hac pilot you will find a home (as it can be assumed you can do BC too and BS not a far reach after if not already have it) . Ratting unless doing something wrong makes t2 loss not so bad. And for the icing on the cake doesn't wreck sec status or faction standing (at least with the 4 main empires).


CCP lowered the content difficulty. Made it not need have a high skilled Hac to run. And paid better. Ergo you got more in FW.


Want to fix FW the answer is clear....roll back to prebuff times. You'd lose lots of your dead weight this way. You'd also lose some quality players as they go screw it the blob pays better.


When you dangle pve to attract players you get more players. Way more in FW now. You however have to accept the downside you attract the isk farmers as well. there is no easy solution for this. Even 0.0 cannot stem the flow of null-bears out there. Its not hard to fake the funk and be way more into pve then pvp in 0.0. You can make your corp pure pvp based. You can't make other corps though. Null-bears gonna null-bear. Not liking your target selection in fw its not so great in a wh or 0.0 sometimes. Get bored roam known null-bear or botter spaces. Great way to bm pos'. Because thats where they all run to when you are around.
Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#51 - 2013-11-10 19:10:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Madbuster73
Zan Shiro wrote:
Madbuster73 wrote:
Bump


This needs to be fixed....




your issues are fixes to what was "broken" with FW in the past.


Low sp noobs....fixed an issue where pre-buff FW kind of worked better with high skills. Those I knew who ran it in the old days favored high skill hacs or pirates boats. One friend swore by his high skilled ishtar. Some e-war resistance (drone boat and all), decently agile for clearing camps or gtfo if jumped in site, and drone use limited ammo use to not have to sweat choke points at stations to refill as much.

This tied to a second issue. Payout. More work/expense to do it and returns not all that good. FW used to pay out like ass. Created 2 problems. Noobs couldn't afford to start up in it or run it long with ship losses or startup costs of living in low sec. Mid experienced players were going why bother. Ergo FW had a much lower population as many said.....


Well i need high skill high power ships to run the content decent. I need the sp to fly it. And the payout sucks. I could build up to this wonderful experience or.....go to a wh or 0.0. Noobs just got the 5 mil sp most entry 0.0 corps need and skipped the foreplay of fw. 0.0 if a competent hac pilot you will find a home (as it can be assumed you can do BC too and BS not a far reach after if not already have it) . Ratting unless doing something wrong makes t2 loss not so bad. And for the icing on the cake doesn't wreck sec status or faction standing (at least with the 4 main empires).


CCP lowered the content difficulty. Made it not need have a high skilled Hac to run. And paid better. Ergo you got more in FW.


Want to fix FW the answer is clear....roll back to prebuff times. You'd lose lots of your dead weight this way. You'd also lose some quality players as they go screw it the blob pays better.


When you dangle pve to attract players you get more players. Way more in FW now. You however have to accept the downside you attract the isk farmers as well. there is no easy solution for this. Even 0.0 cannot stem the flow of null-bears out there. Its not hard to fake the funk and be way more into pve then pvp in 0.0. You can make your corp pure pvp based. You can't make other corps though. Null-bears gonna null-bear. Not liking your target selection in fw its not so great in a wh or 0.0 sometimes. Get bored roam known null-bear or botter spaces. Great way to bm pos'. Because thats where they all run to when you are around.



The old system was completely different than what I am proposing here....
The old system had like 20 NPC's inside that did a lot of dps and were hard to kill.
My proposal still has the same single NPC inside that doesn't do much dps at all, the only thing I am asking is make them a bit harder to kill, except for the novices ofcourse (See the 1st post)
Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#52 - 2013-11-18 19:05:52 UTC
come on CCP!

its not a so much work to change it!!!
Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#53 - 2013-11-22 19:26:00 UTC
Its not that much work CCP!

Tikktokk Tokkzikk
V0LTA
OnlyFleets.
#54 - 2013-11-23 18:17:08 UTC
Easy fix for cloaks and stabs is to have a 30-40km warp disruption battery on the beacon that points war targets after 10 seconds or so.
Master Sergeant MacRobert
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#55 - 2013-11-24 08:23:49 UTC
Tikktokk Tokkzikk wrote:
Easy fix for cloaks and stabs is to have a 30-40km warp disruption battery on the beacon that points war targets after 10 seconds or so.


Mmmm.

Perhaps a 20km warp disruption battery (same range as the caputure radius) might work well? Deactivates upon capture of the bunker and can be destroyed but has very high HP.

Put the beacon for landing from the accelaration gate just outside the disruption battery range at say 24km and ships cannot cloak whilst locked by the battery. Locks and tries to point any target that is not of the same militia.

Cloaking Ambushers would have to position themselves outside the 20km range to ensure they could cloak up for the trap.

WCS fitted pilots can continue to run plex's but will have to demonstrate some ability by getting out of the 20km range before warping off. Looking at it they would still be able to farm.

I think that the NPC's still need a tanking boost. It is too easy to ship down, even whilst solo.

I think it would be good if the LP payout was set to pay each pilot present at capture for a % value based on the amount of time during the capture they were present.

FW Missions: Need to be harder or need to make it harder specifically for stealth bombers with some effective low sig anti-frigate NPC damage.

"Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier"
Yummy Chocolate
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2013-11-24 10:34:15 UTC
tl;dr Join Biohazard..

Frostys Virpio > CCP: Continously Crying Playerbase

Felicity Love >... was thinking "moar popcorn"... but now, seeing the truly awesome contribution this thread is going to make to the Greater Glory Of EVE.... imagonnamakkadapizza....
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#57 - 2013-11-24 19:12:58 UTC
Supporting this thread.

However I'd like to see the tanking numbers for the NPCs raised a little higher than what is proposed.

75 to 100 DPS for Novices.
175 to 200 DPS for Smalls.
250 to 300 DPS for Mediums.

Another thing I'd like to see is infinite-strength warp disruption from the NPCs as well (but I would just be happy with the increased NPC tanks).

How did you Veterans start?
Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#58 - 2013-11-27 16:17:42 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Supporting this thread.

However I'd like to see the tanking numbers for the NPCs raised a little higher than what is proposed.

75 to 100 DPS for Novices.
175 to 200 DPS for Smalls.
250 to 300 DPS for Mediums.

Another thing I'd like to see is infinite-strength warp disruption from the NPCs as well (but I would just be happy with the increased NPC tanks).


That would make it it a bit too hard for new players I think....
Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#59 - 2013-12-03 16:59:14 UTC
Any Dev reading this??
Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#60 - 2013-12-06 11:02:26 UTC
Madbuster73 wrote:
Any Dev reading this??


I guess not