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Suicide ganking - too much - solution

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Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#161 - 2013-11-24 10:33:21 UTC
Haedonism Bot wrote:
Katran Luftschreck wrote:

3) Negative security ratings now carry over to recycled characters. Biomass cloning is no longer a free pass.


Just wanted to take a moment to point out that you already can't biomass characters with negative security status. This is a persistent myth that I've seen all throughout this thread. Most bankers either use their -10 main or have a permanent -10 alt.

Eh, you might be right but when did that happen? I biomassed several noob alts with negative sec status through the years. Granted, they were only like -0.3 or something like that and untrained in anything, but still negative sec status. Used them for experimenting with agression mechanics.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#162 - 2013-11-24 11:02:23 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
I got ganked while auto-piloting my fleet ecmgu on some random high-sec gate. It was standard t2 fit - armor plate, umbra ecm, navy adaptive nano. Nothing fancy, standard cheapo fit.

Anyways, I see a lot of concord on empire gates every time i come out of w-space, a lot more then a few years ago even.

The fact that suicide gankers are these days ganking even standard fleet ships, i.e. scrapping bottom of the barrel, means this particular mode of pvp is getting out of hand.

I have checked killboard of that no-doubt multiboxing dude. Thousands of empire ganks, not a single loss, and at regular intervals, fresh set of 10-12 catalyst pilots.

Its not cool. Ganking haulers for chance to make a pile of isk - great, all for it. Ganking standard fleet ships - wtf? Whats next, they going to suicide-gank FW frigates en route to lowsec?

Right now theres no consequences to suicide ganking. Let me correct this, there no MEANINGFUL consequences. Security status? Please, so easy to work around it. Cost of ships? 2mil per destroyer is not a cost. Brutix hull? Pff.

Solution.

Make it cost something to gank. I propose rework of bounty and kill right mechanic:

Want to suicide gank? Pay to shoot. Pay to concord to activate a temporary kill right on your victim, with price determined by value of the victim. And heres the kicker - victim determines his value by paying to concord his own bounty.

So lets say I want to avoid getting ganked, I think Im not worth more then a bil, so I pay to concord my value, 1bn. That expires, like insurance, by the way. Call it suicide insurance, can tie it to clone value.

Anyhow, ganker wants to gank me, he has to now pay to concord a proportion of that value tied to value of my ship or something, and then he can get a kill right on me. Otherwise, cant shoot me in high sec.

This forces gankers to PAY. Ends rampant non-targeted ganking, AND solves isk inflation.


This means that rich fat traders will never get ganked.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Frozen Chief
Doomheim
#163 - 2013-11-24 16:49:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Frozen Chief
I think OP does have a point.

There is nothing wrong with gankers going after whoever they want to, but in it's current state they can go after anyone and everything endlessly.

Does anyone really deny this? If I had 4 accounts, I could be AFK mining in a belt with 3 tanked barges; using the 4th I could sit at a busy gate and gank anything I please for no reason whatsoever, endlessly, over and over again. The cost of my ships has been well covered by the 3 AFK miners on the second monitor. This is not even considering the times you will get a random 9 figure drop.

In it's current state ganking has become the simplest grief possible and that should not be the point of it. The system should force you to pick and choose who you want to gank; if you go and gank 5 random passer-bys, you are not going to be able to (slash be able to afford) ganking the juicy target that comes by soon.

It would make the gankers actually think and consider what they are ganking instead of it just being a means to chaos, as it is now. Don't worry goons you can keep ganking freighters and industrials at the same rate; but that moron sitting around popping every new toon autopiloting in a noobship will have his effectiveness reduced.

What is the solution? I don't know, but I'm also not payed to figure out solutions. They have dozens of staff for that.

It's no surprise in this thread the main people defending this are CFC or Code, might I add. :P
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#164 - 2013-11-24 17:03:13 UTC
Frozen Chief wrote:


What is the solution?


Don't fly stupid.

Fit a tank, don't afk, don't autopilot, dont stuff billions into a ship without the tank to protect said billions, etc.

CCP should not punish us for your poor choices.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#165 - 2013-11-24 17:08:33 UTC
Frozen Chief wrote:
I think OP does have a point.

There is nothing wrong with gankers going after whoever they want to, but in it's current state they can go after anyone and everything endlessly.
If they can do that, why aren't they? Why are ganks such an exceedingly rare event that it creates shock and horror every time it happens?

Quote:
What is the solution?
Don't be a target. Alternatively, just make it a business cost.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#166 - 2013-11-24 17:16:02 UTC
Frozen Chief wrote:
I think OP does have a point.

There is nothing wrong with gankers going after whoever they want to, but in it's current state they can go after anyone and everything endlessly.

Does anyone really deny this? If I had 4 accounts, I could be AFK mining in a belt with 3 tanked barges; using the 4th I could sit at a busy gate and gank anything I please for no reason whatsoever, endlessly, over and over again. The cost of my ships has been well covered by the 3 AFK miners on the second monitor. This is not even considering the times you will get a random 9 figure drop.



Give this a try and keep us updated on your findings; I think you're in for some surprises.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#167 - 2013-11-24 17:44:36 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Frozen Chief wrote:
If I had 4 accounts, I could be AFK mining in a belt with 3 tanked barges; using the 4th I could sit at a busy gate and gank anything I please for no reason whatsoever, endlessly, over and over again. The cost of my ships has been well covered by the 3 AFK miners on the second monitor. This is not even considering the times you will get a random 9 figure drop.


Give this a try and keep us updated on your findings; I think you're in for some surprises.


True - you would actually only need one AFK miner to feed three gank Crapalysts, not the other way around.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#168 - 2013-11-24 18:13:37 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Eram Fidard wrote:
Your 'solution' is not.

Quite simply because gankers do not require or desire kill rights (would have thought you'd have figured this one out).

If, on the other hand, you are proposing that suicide ganking not be allowed, full stop:

Get out.


Im proposing it should cost something. Pay-per-fire, with it costing more isk in fines the older a pod is (or the more insurance the pod has bought).


think your tears is enough of a reason to gank you. gg
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#169 - 2013-11-24 18:59:06 UTC
Red Teufel wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Eram Fidard wrote:
Your 'solution' is not.

Quite simply because gankers do not require or desire kill rights (would have thought you'd have figured this one out).

If, on the other hand, you are proposing that suicide ganking not be allowed, full stop:

Get out.


Im proposing it should cost something. Pay-per-fire, with it costing more isk in fines the older a pod is (or the more insurance the pod has bought).


think your tears is enough of a reason to gank you. gg

just need to make it cost infinity and also send the costs to all your alts if you have 0 isk

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Casanunda
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#170 - 2013-11-24 20:38:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Casanunda
Alavaria Fera wrote:
just need to make it cost infinity and also send the costs to all your alts if you have 0 isk

If we can make it so that all suicide ganking costs get charged to Infinity Ziona, who can afford it judging by the recent "I make billions every day in nullsec" thread she/he/it recently started, that would be great.

The fact that I am not a gazillionaire Gallente aristocrat with the sexual capacity of a rutting rhino is a constant niggle.
Naomi Niktos
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#171 - 2013-12-08 09:17:54 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
No I did in fact lose an ecm tengu, was like 10 days ago I think.

Im pissed for 2 reasons:

1) my tengu had a cool name and it SHOULDNT have exploded with that name
2) its a fleet ship. Why the hell gank a fleet ship??? Thats just stupid. Its like ganking any odd random falcon you see pass by. Same mods drop. I mean ok, gankers got away with 2-3 tech 2 missle launchers, couple of umbra ecm mods, cheap ass nano plate... grats? No ship scan anymore? See tengu, mash F1 button much, dollar signs in eyes?

Thats scrapping bottom of barrel.


~Delicious tears~
Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
#172 - 2013-12-08 10:12:57 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
2) its a fleet ship. Why the hell gank a fleet ship??? Thats just stupid. Its like ganking any odd random falcon you see pass by.


Why? It's not about the isk. It's not about the killmail. It's not about e-peen, honor, morality or ideology. It's because I know that once I hit that F1 button it will induce a horrible, gut wrenching feeling of terror in you that runs from your solar plexus all the down to your tailbone. Anger, failure, shame, frustration, helplessness. This is what you deserve. And judging from this thread, it's what you got.
Bel Tika
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#173 - 2013-12-08 10:24:25 UTC
Got me first suicide gank other day, taught me a few things lol an im never afk :) nice enough guy though had wee chat with him afterwards
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#174 - 2013-12-08 10:24:53 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
kermity wrote:


Guess who I'm going to gank tomorrow.



TEST? You guys still exist? I dont much pay attention to null-bears, all you are to me are ship scan results on my tackle boat's combat probes...And a few seconds later, a cloud of wreckage.


I like Test, they got balls. Plus you need to back this statement up with a selection of km's to have any legitimacy in this thread as hardened combat pilots do not fly afk.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#175 - 2013-12-08 11:04:21 UTC
Pak Narhoo wrote:
Tell me, if you play F3 and hit 'q' and go bake a cake, put out the trash or whatever, do you really expect to see your character alive when you come back to the screen? Shocked

well. if you travel to some secure point nothing will happen.

Let's say if you "auto-pilot" to the town you started game from (... Springs) you appear next to the bar. And i have never seen anything danger around.

So nope. F3 is a bad example

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Digital Messiah
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#176 - 2013-12-08 12:00:46 UTC
Suicide ganking isn't always for a profit. We as a community have accepted people kill other people to pass the time. Grief and tears fuel the bored and over played.

Something clever
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#177 - 2013-12-08 12:02:20 UTC
Perhaps we should start a "LUMINOUS SPIRIT gank-a-thon".
Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#178 - 2013-12-08 21:36:27 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Pak Narhoo wrote:
Tell me, if you play F3 and hit 'q' and go bake a cake, put out the trash or whatever, do you really expect to see your character alive when you come back to the screen? Shocked

well. if you travel to some secure point nothing will happen.

Let's say if you "auto-pilot" to the town you started game from (... Springs) you appear next to the bar. And i have never seen anything danger around.

So nope. F3 is a bad example

The point he is making is that in no other game you'd leave your char/vehicle/whatever in a place with any danger if you go AFK and expect it to be fine when you come back.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#179 - 2013-12-08 23:23:36 UTC
Not sure what the fuss is about.

AFK autopiloting = carebear no challenge minimal involvement/risk gaming
suicide ganking = carebear no challenge minimal involvement/risk gaming


So suicide ganking is just one sort of carebear killing another sort of carebear.

Who cares really. Nothing to see, move on.
Savior Sarn
Wasteland Engineering
#180 - 2013-12-09 08:30:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Savior Sarn
Frozen Chief wrote:
I think OP does have a point.
There is nothing wrong with gankers going after whoever they want :P


this is it,

market/economy

it makes me choose between having my alt escort my freightor with its 67k ehp dual repped armor pvp ship to jita, because It has too much loot, to the point if im just taking a couple of cans. Price your cargo, if you have too much break iIt up. tHESE PPL GET ONE SHOT. Don't make them happy