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Remember Malkalen!

Author
Aebe Amraen
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1 - 2013-11-23 16:07:53 UTC
Those loyal to the Gallente Empire would have us believe that they stand on the side of freedom, peace, and justice. They choose to ignore the catastrophe at Malkalen, pretending it never happened--or, in some cases, spread conspiracy theories suggesting it was either an inside job or the work of a rogue capsuleer impersonating Noir; absurd claims with no evidence to back them up.

Malkalen shows the true nature of the Gallentean government--this nominally democratic empire is in fact controlled by military industries who will stop at nothing to ensure a market for their weapons of war. How much has Jacus Roden profited from this war he started?

The memory of that day burns forever in the minds of all those who love truth, who love justice, who love peace. Remember Malkalen!
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#2 - 2013-11-23 17:31:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Katrina Oniseki
We do.

Katrina Oniseki

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-11-23 17:38:05 UTC
Ironic. If it's not a conspiracy theory about impersonation and inside jobs, it's a conspiracy theory about Jacus Roden profiting from the destruction.

Guess no matter what you do, there's always going to be a conspiracy.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Aebe Amraen
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#4 - 2013-11-23 17:41:54 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Ironic. If it's not a conspiracy theory about impersonation and inside jobs, it's a conspiracy theory about Jacus Roden profiting from the destruction.

Guess no matter what you do, there's always going to be a conspiracy.


I don't think there can be any doubt that Jacus Roden profits from the increased demand for Roden Shipyards warships.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#5 - 2013-11-23 17:52:49 UTC
Aebe Amraen wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
Ironic. If it's not a conspiracy theory about impersonation and inside jobs, it's a conspiracy theory about Jacus Roden profiting from the destruction.

Guess no matter what you do, there's always going to be a conspiracy.


I don't think there can be any doubt that Jacus Roden profits from the increased demand for Roden Shipyards warships.

Perhaps not but considering your opening statement I doubt that what your after is “peace”.
Vikarion
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-11-23 17:56:27 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
I don't think there can be any doubt that Jacus Roden profits from the increased demand for Roden Shipyards warships.

Perhaps not but considering your opening statement I doubt that what your after is “peace”. [/quote]

Even the most peace-oriented Caldari loathe Roden. In fact, you can find quite a few Gallente capsuleers who aren't sure whether the Caldari or Roden are worse.

And, indeed, Roden might be worse. The CEP is not, by and large, interested in destroying the Federation as an entity. But Roden can change it from within, without a fight, into something that is unrecognizable.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-11-23 18:06:27 UTC
Aebe Amraen wrote:
I don't think there can be any doubt that Jacus Roden profits from the increased demand for Roden Shipyards warships.


So have I. I've built and sold Roden ships - you can make good money of Ares and Oneiros-classes. Clearly, I'm a co-conspirator and should be arrested for treason. Oh, and arrest Lai Dai and Kaalakiota while you're at it: Both have profited from the increased demand for their warships, exactly as Roden shipyards have done. Clearly they're in on it.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#8 - 2013-11-23 18:12:45 UTC
It's not difficult to see a conflict of interests regarding Roden.

He's quite possibly one of the few men in the Federation who has the power to end the war, and he's also one of the few men in the Federation directly and so lucratively profiting from it.

Katrina Oniseki

Aebe Amraen
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#9 - 2013-11-23 18:13:27 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Aebe Amraen wrote:
I don't think there can be any doubt that Jacus Roden profits from the increased demand for Roden Shipyards warships.


So have I. I've built and sold Roden ships - you can make good money of Ares and Oneiros-classes. Clearly, I'm a co-conspirator and should be arrested for treason. Oh, and arrest Lai Dai and Kaalakiota while you're at it: Both have profited from the increased demand for their warships, exactly as Roden shipyards have done. Clearly they're in on it.



I would remind you that it was a Gallente supercarrier, not a Caldari one, under the command of a Gallente general, not a Caldari one, which took the lives of hundreds of thousands of civilians at Malkalen.

Your response is sadly typical of Gallentean apologists who choose to ignore the tragedy and vilify the Caldari state. So typical, in fact, that I predicted it in my original post. Thank you for demonstrating my point for me.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#10 - 2013-11-23 18:24:57 UTC  |  Edited by: James Syagrius
I am continually amazed at the undeserved vitriol directed at our good President.

He has done nothing but strengthen our Federal Union from its internal and external foes.

Please enumerate for me his offences that lead you to your very conspiratorial conclusions regarding his intentions.

Perhaps however it’s simply that our friends in the State are unsettled by the thought of an effective Executive in the Federation capable of dealing in kind with State duplicity.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-11-23 18:30:54 UTC
Aebe Amraen wrote:
I would remind you that it was a Gallente supercarrier, not a Caldari one, under the command of a Gallente general, not a Caldari one, which took the lives of hundreds of thousands of civilians at Malkalen.

Your response is sadly typical of Gallentean apologists who choose to ignore the tragedy and vilify the Caldari state. So typical, in fact, that I predicted it in my original post. Thank you for demonstrating my point for me.

I would remind you that it was a Caldari fleet, not a Gallente one, under the command of a Caldari admiral, not a Gallente one, which took the lives of hundreds of thousands of civilians on Gallente Prime.

Your response is sadly typical of Caldari apologists who choose to ignore the tragedy and vilify the Gallente Federation. So typical.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-11-23 18:34:35 UTC
oh please. I'm neither glorifying the Federation nor vilifying the State - I'm simply calling you a moron whose sad attempt at overcompensating for his ethnicity in a show of patriotic zeal isn't fooling anybody with a working brain.

The State can survive on its own merits without idiots like you making an excess of nationalistic noise. We don't NEED another Diana Kim, the one we already have is doing enough damage to the credibility of our people.

Jacus Roden is a powerful person, and the head of state of a foreign power with whom we have an antagonistic relationship. Fine. That fact is not sufficient evidence to accuse him of being involved in Malkalen. There is NO evidence linking him with it, none. And your paranoid ravings just wind up making the State look like a haven for witless zealots who couldn't find a rational argument with three years and a guide.

I'm not defending Jacus Roden, I'm defending the State from cracked cases like you by trying to show that we're not all of us completely dense.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#13 - 2013-11-23 19:39:30 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Aebe Amraen wrote:
I would remind you that it was a Gallente supercarrier, not a Caldari one, under the command of a Gallente general, not a Caldari one, which took the lives of hundreds of thousands of civilians at Malkalen.

Your response is sadly typical of Gallentean apologists who choose to ignore the tragedy and vilify the Caldari state. So typical, in fact, that I predicted it in my original post. Thank you for demonstrating my point for me.



I would remind you that it was a Caldari fleet, not a Gallente one, under the command of a Caldari admiral, not a Gallente one, which took the lives of hundreds of thousands of civilians on Gallente Prime.

Your response is sadly typical of Caldari apologists who choose to ignore the tragedy and vilify the Gallente Federation. So typical.



And you seem to be a typical Gallente apologist to me, failing to see that the Gallente Federation makes faults.

The Caldari State isn't perfect, and we know this. But this knowledge strengthens us, as it inspires us to improve. We ousted Heth because he diverged from the Caldari ideal and became too focused on the destruction of the federation at all costs. With his removal, we lessened our imperfection, improving the State to a better organisation. It's time for the Gallente to look at themselves and improve themselves from within.

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology

Aebe Amraen
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#14 - 2013-11-23 20:27:53 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
I'm not defending Jacus Roden, I'm defending the State from cracked cases like you by trying to show that we're not all of us completely dense.


I'm not at all sure the State needs or wants defense from someone whose combat record consists entirely of attacking Caldari State officials.

Your words carry little weight, my traitorous friend.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-11-23 20:38:11 UTC
I wasn't aware that Templis Dragonaurs, Guristas, True slaves, and an assortment of independent capsuleers could be considered "State officials".

Well, except for Pouriainen Uetartoshin. That was a blue-on-blue brought about by a confusing combat situation which led me, and many others, to mistake him for a Dragonaur. I reached an appropriate settlement with the Peace and Order Unit out of court and my standing with them has suffered no permanent harm.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Cheng Sawal
Rapid Salvage Unit
#16 - 2013-11-23 21:38:46 UTC
There is no doubt Mister Roden benefits greatly from his position and from the war. It's traditional for politicians to milk the system for all its worth after all. As for his industry benefiting from his service to the nation, .. well, he is almost Caldari in that accomplishment. Whether those of us in the State should be concerned or smug about that is up in the air.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-11-23 21:44:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Andreus Ixiris
I'd like to point out the irony of a (Gallentean) member of TEST admonishing anyone about pride in or loyalty to any nation, (let alone the Caldari), given that for the longest time every single communique from TEST members posting on the IGS was "hurr, the Empires suck! We'll never, ever need them!" That was, until TEST got ran out of nullsec on a rail and decided that no, they actually did need the protection of the Caldari State, and expect everyone on the IGS to forget that they were some of the same people shooting at the Caldari fleet during Operation Spectre.

Besides, the "frothing, lunatic Caldari with no understanding of reality" post has long been filled. If TEST wanted to jump on a bandwagon, they could at least have picked one with a future.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#18 - 2013-11-23 22:54:23 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
I wasn't aware that Templis Dragonaurs, Guristas, True slaves, and an assortment of independent capsuleers could be considered "State officials".

Well, except for Pouriainen Uetartoshin. That was a blue-on-blue brought about by a confusing combat situation which led me, and many others, to mistake him for a Dragonaur. I reached an appropriate settlement with the Peace and Order Unit out of court and my standing with them has suffered no permanent harm.


I can confirm that Hakaatain-haan flew in support of the Caldari State and the CEP in several large engagements earlier this year.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-11-23 23:15:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Andreus Ixiris
Protip - if you're a Provist demagogue and you're trying to rile up Caldari loyalists, there's one thing you never do. One tactic you don't try, if you want to have any hope of being taken seriously, if you want any chance of getting your point across, if you want to maintain any shred of credibility.

Don't call Verin a traitor to the Caldari State.

I'm not neccessarily saying that correlation implies causation, but every single person who's ever tried that has ended up as an IGS laughing stock, and I'm not sure that's a coincidence.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Erys Charantes
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-11-23 23:29:29 UTC
Aebe Amraen wrote:
Those loyal to the Gallente Empire would have us believe that they stand on the side of freedom, peace, and justice. They choose to ignore the catastrophe at Malkalen, pretending it never happened--or, in some cases, spread conspiracy theories suggesting it was either an inside job or the work of a rogue capsuleer impersonating Noir; absurd claims with no evidence to back them up.

Malkalen shows the true nature of the Gallentean government--this nominally democratic empire is in fact controlled by military industries who will stop at nothing to ensure a market for their weapons of war. How much has Jacus Roden profited from this war he started?

The memory of that day burns forever in the minds of all those who love truth, who love justice, who love peace. Remember Malkalen!

I'll never be able to forget Malkalen. Indelibly etched, you might say. I'm not going to bother explaining what my link to that activity is, since everyone who matters knows, and anyone who doesn't can work it out from my really available public information if they have half a brain. In case you haven't noticed, we already have a war over this, and those who care, remember. We don't need some nullsec reject using it for his own dreary little reasons.

You want to respect Malkalen? Arrange a ceremony to honor the dead or commemorate the day itself. Those of us who lived through it are pretty tired of having it trotted out every time some "born again" anti-Federalist/anti-Stateist/rabble rouser needs a convenient soap box.
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