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A very simple question

Author
Evergreen Max
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-11-23 16:47:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Evergreen Max
Hello, gents!
I got a very simple question here:

How do the prices go up? I mean there are lots of sell orders and everyone lowers the price for 0,01 usually. So how do the prices rise?
Order A: 999,99
Order B becomes: 999,98
And so on
I can't imagine people who buy all the sell orders and set higher prices
So how does it happen?

Best regards,

P.S sorry for my English
Angry Wife Agro
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2013-11-23 17:23:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Angry Wife Agro
The only way to raise the price is to buy those sell orders (also it is possible that some sell orders drop out when their time expires). If the supply is bigger than demand and there are many sell orders with price differences of 0,01 ISK from each other it might take a long time for a price to rise up.

Also, remember that demand and supply might drastically and quickly change when CCP makes some game changes (keep an eye on dev blogs and dev posts).

EDIT: Find an awesome way to use that item or lie about that item or its future price (or anything else), post it on forums, talk about it in game chats and make people think that they must buy it, make profit out of it. Use your imagination, be smart Blink

And remember - there is always a risk
Evergreen Max
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-11-23 17:46:01 UTC
Angry Wife Agro wrote:
The only way to raise the price is to buy those sell orders (also it is possible that some sell orders drop out when their time expires). If the supply is bigger than demand and there are many sell orders with price differences of 0,01 ISK from each other it might take a long time for a price to rise up.

Also, remember that demand and supply might drastically and quickly change when CCP makes some game changes (keep an eye on dev blogs and dev posts).

EDIT: Find an awesome way to use that item or lie about that item or its future price (or anything else), post it on forums, talk about it in game chats and make people think that they must buy it, make profit out of it. Use your imagination, be smart Blink

And remember - there is always a risk


Thank you, good sir. But usually traders set the order expiry time for 3 months And also how can a trader buy all the sell orders for ex. In jita?
Derp Durrr
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-11-23 17:52:27 UTC
its quite simple:

lets say there are 100 people selling a hammer every day, but there are only 50 people who need one. the way the people try to sell their hammer, is usually by making it more appealing to buy theirs, by making their price lower than the competition. this brings a price down over time, since there will be more supply than demand.

now imagine the opposite:
50 people are selling a hammer, but 100 people need one.these 50 hammers get bought up quickly, while the other 50 customers will become desperate for a new hammer. this will make it possible for the sellers to adjust their price the other way, since out of those 100 customers, surely 50 of them are willing to pay more for it.

it's all a game of thug rope really, or "supply and demand".

Founder of the soon-to-be Legendary Tournament series -=DESTRUCTION DERPY=- Are you up for the challenge? Join our ingame channel Destruction Derpy today!

Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#5 - 2013-11-23 17:59:31 UTC
Also, many sell orders in jita are the result of traders reselling their buy orders, a lot fewer are because of people coming in and making their own sell orders.

This makes the number of items dependent on missioners/builders/moonpoo-collectors etc coming in and right click selling.

Now, for say, T2 modules and ships, builders work on a weekly (or thereabouts) cycle. Prices tend to drop at the weekends, when there are more builders delivering their items, more miners out mining etc.

During the week however, there are not so many supplies coming in, while the demand is approximately the same.
Angry Wife Agro
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2013-11-23 18:00:40 UTC
If a seller placed a sell order for a duration of 3 months, they can extend that time indefinitely by changing the price, every time item price is changed sell order time is renewed back to 3 months for example.

Only the big boys who have tenths of billions ISK or hundreds of billions of ISK can manipulate the price directly the way they want. "Smaller" guys need to analize the market, adjust to it.
Evergreen Max
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-11-23 18:09:17 UTC
Okay, thank you for your answers. So the thing when the prices go up is like: there no more sell orders for 1000 isk for ex. and traders start setting the orders with 1500 isk price. Right?
Angry Wife Agro
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2013-11-23 18:30:21 UTC
Evergreen Max wrote:
Okay, thank you for your answers. So the thing when the prices go up is like: there no more sell orders for 1000 isk for ex. and traders start setting the orders with 1500 isk price. Right?


Basically yes. For example: people might buy out items for 1000 isk, 1200 isk, 1500 isk per unit and the lowest price for sale left is 2000 isk, BUT it is possible that someone might come in and place sell order for 1200 isk again. There a really many things that might happen to item prices, as others said it depends on suplly and demand, depends on other players speculating the prices and so on.
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#9 - 2013-11-23 18:30:29 UTC
What usually happens, if you look at the market, there are a load of orders at 1000 isk, and then there are a load above it with higher prices.

If all the ones at 1000 isk get bought out before new supply comes in, the price will increase.
Careby
#10 - 2013-11-23 18:42:03 UTC
Also, as sellers chip away at sell orders, buyers (often the same players) are doing the same with buy orders. Competition drives sell prices down and buy prices up. In an efficient market, the "spread" between "bid" and "ask" will be small. In EVE, traders don't like small profit margins, so they look for opportunities to move the prices in their favor. Sometimes those prices don't represent real "value" or cost to build. At the same time, there are other players looking for prices that are out-of-touch with reality, and they will often step in to correct the prices.

It can be a beautiful thing, or it can be the most annoying experience in the game, all depending on your perspective.

Evergreen Max
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-11-23 18:49:22 UTC
Thanks everyone!Smile
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#12 - 2013-11-23 23:40:49 UTC
Angry Wife Agro wrote:
If a seller placed a sell order for a duration of 3 months, they can extend that time indefinitely by changing the price, every time item price is changed sell order time is renewed back to 3 months for example.

Only the big boys who have tenths of billions ISK or hundreds of billions of ISK can manipulate the price directly the way they want. "Smaller" guys need to analize the market, adjust to it.



Much smaller players can manipulate prices. I do it occasionally and my total in-game wealth is between ten and fifteen billion ISK, with only 3-5b liquid or close to it.

I don't try to manipulate big markets, like the tech 1 battleship market. Instead I look for markets that take time to resupply, and that demand for in pretty constant. Tech 2 ammo markets can be very prone to manipulation because it takes so damn long to build and (for large ammo) is also somewhat skill-intensive to build.

I have on several occasions identified a tech 2 ammunition charge that was worth doing a major price manipulation on, purchased all of the sell orders under a certain point, then relisted my entire supply at a high price. Sometimes I've made decent ISK doing so, other times I've become stuck with over a million charges that just will not sell quickly at all, but overall I'm ahead.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#13 - 2013-11-24 01:47:54 UTC
Evergreen Max wrote:
Hello, gents!
I got a very simple question here:

How do the prices go up? I mean there are lots of sell orders and everyone lowers the price for 0,01 usually. So how do the prices rise?
Order A: 999,99
Order B becomes: 999,98
And so on
I can't imagine people who buy all the sell orders and set higher prices
So how does it happen?

Best regards,

P.S sorry for my English


Every market, both in EvE and in RL is a tug of war between buyers and sellers, separated by a line on the floor called spread. Price is the ribbon sometimes they put on the rope to better show who's pulling harder.

Generally, orders distribution is similar to a Gaussian curve around the current price. The farter you go from price the rarer are the orders.

When buyers pull hard enough, they apply pressure on the orders. The sell orders get "consumed" by too much buying and at a certain point price starts rising.
If the buyers predominance is very strong, it's possible that price "breaks" through so many orders that it hits the sparsely orders populated areas behind what was the previous "tug of war line" and then price moves with explosive speed.

But that will come later in your learning.

Stick studying markets, it's like studying people, it never ends. Then one day you'll discover markets ARE us and why all the mechanicistic approcaches fail sooner or later.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#14 - 2013-11-24 03:08:20 UTC
When you look at the bids, there is usually a pattern.

Maybe 8 orders within .01 isk of one another. These are the daytraders. Add up all their units for sale. Then depending on how long they have been going at it, there could be another tier of bids maybe 20 million isk higher than the highest daytrader. It may be less or more, but there will be a clear break between the daytrader prices and the long term price. Check the time remaining to decide how long this guy has been waiting.

Now go to history and check volume and average price. Chances are there will be certain days or periodic cycles with a volume that is greater than the total volume of daytrades. It may look like a lot of trades are out there and that prices can only come down, but the market tends to move in cycles of BIG orders. Where an alliance decides to change from a apocalypse to a tengu doctrine, so they decide they need to make 10,000 tengus, so during the next war lull, a swarm of jump freighters decend on jita and buy the market out.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.