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Regarding E-YJ8G last night

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CCP Veritas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2013-11-23 11:42:49 UTC
Hiya folks, just a quick post about the node death that prematurely ended the fighting in E-YJ8G.

Technical investigation is ongoing, but it's clear that there was some run-away processing that took over 5 minutes of un-interrupted CPU time to complete. Our cluster is set up to assume that any node that is unresponsive for more than 3 minutes is dead and is removed forcefully from the cluster so that the show may go on elsewhere.

We're investigating why exactly that spike in execution happened and I'm hopeful we can knock it back in line. We'll be able to share more details of what exactly happened once a fix is deployed.

CCP Veritas - Technical Director - EVE Online
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#2 - 2013-11-23 11:46:06 UTC
Best of luck. Hope you find the problem and can prevent it in the future.

/c

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

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Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#3 - 2013-11-23 11:57:05 UTC
Also is Brain in a Box still in the works?

If so keep working at it with that crazy, double keyboard, 5 handed, dubstep fevor you had at the last AT :P

The Drake is a Lie
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#4 - 2013-11-23 12:08:18 UTC
Gee I wonder why
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#5 - 2013-11-23 12:11:21 UTC
Is IA checking on who authorized that process?

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
CCP Veritas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#6 - 2013-11-23 12:17:43 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Is IA checking on who authorized that process?

It was processing a standard gameplay request from a player. This was not a case of developer interaction with the node.

CCP Veritas - Technical Director - EVE Online
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#7 - 2013-11-23 12:24:11 UTC
CCP Veritas wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
Is IA checking on who authorized that process?

It was processing a standard gameplay request from a player. This was not a case of developer interaction with the node.

Good to know.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
hellcane
Never Back Down
#8 - 2013-11-23 12:26:22 UTC
Sounds like you didn't feed the hamster
45thtiger 0109
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#9 - 2013-11-23 12:28:06 UTC
CCP Veritas wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
Is IA checking on who authorized that process?

It was processing a standard gameplay request from a player. This was not a case of developer interaction with the node.


Damn the Hamsters are at it again.

They like to disrupt a good fight oh well its time for CCP to kick some hamsters ass again.

Best of luck fixing the problem CCP Big smileBlink

**You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.

Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
Ailok Konem
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2013-11-23 12:34:57 UTC
Disappointing ...... very disappointing.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-11-23 12:37:12 UTC
Ting Mei
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-11-23 12:38:26 UTC
Veritas,

The problem is not only the node crash, but the TiDi system.

Even if we are all ok that is better to have TiDi than a systematic node crash as before, TiDi is really ruining the game little by little.

When you are in a fight, TIDI 10% is often activated, but the problem, is our brain not at 10%, and TIDI offer all the time for reinforcement to come, strategies to be discussed, etc ....

This really change the way of a fight ...

I'm very afraid CCP think TiDi is THE solution, and you are not working on something else ...

For me, don't know for others, even if on internal coms, most of players hate Tidi, that system is Ruining 0.0 fights little by little.
Gary Bell
Therapy.
The Initiative.
#13 - 2013-11-23 12:45:59 UTC
Tidi is kinda interesting as well, at least how it works.. In a certain circumstance a little ship was able to warp and light a cyno.. The server was able to process the module activation yet our targeting requests took upwards of 4 minutes to process..

Was a fun fight but the order in which the processes seem to reach the server can turn an entire fight.. causing it to basically turn around in a split second..

I think that is something that needs to be looked at as well if we are gonna be stuck with tidi at least.. But yeah hopefully you dont feel tidi is the answer cuz holy hell its boring..

On a side note I fired 54 Bubbles last night from my dictor and survived that entire fight lol.. so changes to dictors is fun.. I still feel it would be nice to be able to bubble and warp not have to burn.. I think it would be a better ship to have bubble immunity as ceptors are already fast as balls but meh..

But yeah Tidi NOT THE ENDGAME FIX..

Fun fight

0/
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#14 - 2013-11-23 13:20:06 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Ting Mei wrote:
Veritas,

The problem is not only the node crash, but the TiDi system.

Even if we are all ok that is better to have TiDi than a systematic node crash as before, TiDi is really ruining the game little by little.

When you are in a fight, TIDI 10% is often activated, but the problem, is our brain not at 10%, and TIDI offer all the time for reinforcement to come, strategies to be discussed, etc ....

This really change the way of a fight ...

I'm very afraid CCP think TiDi is THE solution, and you are not working on something else ...

For me, don't know for others, even if on internal coms, most of players hate Tidi, that system is Ruining 0.0 fights little by little.


*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal


Massive fleet battles always made things happen more slowly

Getting rid of TiDi won't make the slowness go away

TiDi isn't what makes things happen more slowly.



Asking the server node to do more things that it can get done in a 1-second tick is what makes things happen more slowly. TiDi just makes sure that the slowness is apportioned out evenly. Even if CCP cancelled TiDi tomorrow, the "extra time for reinforcements" would still happen, but with added stuck modules, blackscreens, grossly unfair turkey-shoots, ghost-ships, people unable to log back in to their character for hours or even days and so on.

CCP don't think that TiDi is a "solution" to lag; TiDi is about making the effects of a given amount of lag more tolerable for the players. It's not touted as a solution any more than a doctor thinks that painkillers will "cure" your broken leg rather than merely reduce your discomfort while the bone heals.

As for whether CCP are still working on lag, maybe do some research on what the upper limit for a fleet fight size was before TiDi was introduced.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Ting Mei
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-11-23 13:36:25 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal

Maybe there are other things to change, for the CPU to take less things in the face, such as revamp the Drone doctrine ? the Missiles ? How it works, how it is managed by the server ?

When you have, like yesterday, maybe something like 5000 drones on field, each one managed by the CPU, i'm quite sure CPU would love for example that Drones are considered as grouped ?

If assisted doctrine was not existing for example, maybe the CPU would not receive an order from ONE person to manage at the same second 250 x 5 drones, and this multiplicate by the numbers of fleet ?

Today, when you are on field, you don't see a ball of ships, you see a megaball of drones !

And i'm sorry, but today, is almost impossible to be over 20 persons jumping in an empty constellation without to get traffic control or tidi on the other side ... so maybe Tidi is also set a little too sensible.
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-11-23 13:56:34 UTC
Ting Mei wrote:

If assisted doctrine was not existing for example, maybe the CPU would not receive an order from ONE person to manage at the same second 250 x 5 drones, and this multiplicate by the numbers of fleet ?


With drone assist:

1 command to 1250 Drones total

Without drone assist:

250 commands to 1250 Drones total

It seems to me that drone assist means fewer commands processed. Without it, the number of commands to be processed by the server is much higher, thus bringing even more load on the server.
My Capital Alt
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2013-11-23 13:57:59 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Ting Mei wrote:
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal

Maybe there are other things to change, for the CPU to take less things in the face, such as revamp the Drone doctrine ? the Missiles ? How it works, how it is managed by the server ?

When you have, like yesterday, maybe something like 5000 drones on field, each one managed by the CPU, i'm quite sure CPU would love for example that Drones are considered as grouped ?

If assisted doctrine was not existing for example, maybe the CPU would not receive an order from ONE person to manage at the same second 250 x 5 drones, and this multiplicate by the numbers of fleet ?

Today, when you are on field, you don't see a ball of ships, you see a megaball of drones !

And i'm sorry, but today, is almost impossible to be over 20 persons jumping in an empty constellation without to get traffic control or tidi on the other side ... so maybe Tidi is also set a little too sensible.


You act like drones are new or something
Zulu Death Mask
Yaxchilan
#18 - 2013-11-23 13:59:21 UTC
I'd like to see for once a CCP answer to the whole drone/fighter problem.
Unless there's already been one and I'm not aware of it.
Ting Mei
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-11-23 13:59:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Ting Mei
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
Ting Mei wrote:

If assisted doctrine was not existing for example, maybe the CPU would not receive an order from ONE person to manage at the same second 250 x 5 drones, and this multiplicate by the numbers of fleet ?


With drone assist:

1 command to 1250 Drones total

Without drone assist:

250 commands to 1250 Drones total

It seems to me that drone assist means fewer commands processed. Without it, the number of commands to be processed by the server is much higher, thus bringing even more load on the server.


Yes but i imagine not at the same second, wich i think is better for the CPU ?

When is 1 command, the CPU take all in the same second, and we are generaly using the same drones/sentry, we all have the same cycle, wich will start again and again at the same second ?

(and, is my very own opinion, but is borring and not fun at all to play that doctrine except if your are the assisted guy)
Reza Najafi
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
#20 - 2013-11-23 14:01:09 UTC
Change the system so it doesn't require just to be at I-HUB and Station timers (and blob the sun with your friends) in order to take over or defend a system. Adding to that TIDI just gives another advantage to whoever has more numbers as they can resupply faster and get more, more, more, more ... numbers, what else?!

If CCP really goes (even more) towards blobbing mechanics in sov warfare at least make them work in a decent way so it doesn't take 6-7h+ of fighting which non-try-hard gamers don't have to end a fight that would take like an hour.
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