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Warp Core Stab Rebalance
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Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#21 - 2013-11-22 17:02:00 UTC
Electrique Wizard wrote:
Hopelesshobo wrote:
When you fit WCS, you are not putting yourself out there to avoid PVP. You actually fit that module when you expect someone to engage you. Just because you make the tactical decision to run away, doesn't mean you have avoided PVP, because you actually put yourself into the position where someone will probably engage you.

It's the other persons fault for not equipping enough points to counter the WCS. When it comes to mining ships, I always assume they have WCS on. When I popped a skiff with a friend that had an assault frigate and a T1 frig as an escort, we allowed the 2 frigates to escape because we were not sure if the skiff had WCS on, so we just kept our points on the skiff and forced the other ships off grid.


First you say stabs doesnt always mean wanting to avoid PVP
Then you give an example where you confirmed the skiff had no intention of PVPing and and you assumed he had stabs.
Because stabs are a cowards module.


But it was still PVP. Player vs Player doesn't automatically result in a killmail. He chose to mine in lowsec, with neutrals in local, and I chose to attempt to counter if he had stabs on (which he did not). Even if he would have warped away because we did not have enough warp disruption to counter his stabs doesn't mean what just happened wasn't PVP.

You say its the cowards way out, but cowards live and preserve their strength to fight when they have the upperhand.

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
Do Dixie Chick
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-11-22 19:31:10 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
A module that's designed for running away shouldn't make your ship worse at running away.

However I agree that the current penalties have very little effect on certain classes of ships, e.g. miners or industrials. How about a warp speed penalty? You can run away from a camp, but anyone actively chasing you will have an easier time catching up.


I think reducing the warp speed considerably on a ship fitted with Warp Core Stabilizers could actually be viable, especially now with the interceptor buff. Imagine your warp speed going down from 9 AU/s to 2.25 AU/s because you've got some stabs fitted -- this already is a considerable drawback. Even if targeting systems would be unaffected by the module, warping slowly is a serious disadvantage, and makes interdictors even more powerful.
XvXTeacherVxV
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#23 - 2013-11-22 20:14:32 UTC
One of the reason I left FW was all the warp-stabby nonsense. That said, it's a reason to change faction warfare, not warp stabs. Warp Core Stabs are fine as is on their own.
Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE
Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2013-11-22 20:28:42 UTC
XvXTeacherVxV wrote:
One of the reason I left FW was all the warp-stabby nonsense. That said, it's a reason to change faction warfare, not warp stabs. Warp Core Stabs are fine as is on their own.



The solution for FW: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=289620&find=unread
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#25 - 2013-11-22 20:44:11 UTC
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
I already know this will be flamed by those that love to fit stabs to hide from wars.

But in light of the new changes to warp speed how about we add a real penalty to warp core stabs and the stacking thereof.

I propose a nerf to align time and warp speed.

So if you stack tons of stabs you will eventually have a ship that warps like a freighter.

Flame on.


That's a reasonable alternative penalty, but only if you want to see WCS on combat ships instead of seeing them on travel fits.

If you're hunting wartargets get a lachesis and fit 3pt scrams.

XvXTeacherVxV wrote:
One of the reason I left FW was all the warp-stabby nonsense. That said, it's a reason to change faction warfare, not warp stabs. Warp Core Stabs are fine as is on their own.


This.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Beta Maoye
#26 - 2013-11-22 20:47:22 UTC
Since web stab. has penalties on lock time and lock range, I actually think scrambler should have penalties on speed and warp speed to make it balance.
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#27 - 2013-11-22 23:01:48 UTC
typical t1 frigs get 8 AU.. lets say.. warp core stabs nerf warp speed by -1 per one equipped.. thus if you quad stab thats 4au per second (HALF the speed of a un-stabbed frigate) meaning if you roll the die and get lucky you an be waiting where they warped to.

downsides are this wouldn't work for other ship types.. so my proposition is this..
remove the drawbacks to locking and range on warp core stabs But!..change it to nerf the warp speed by a % instead thus it can work for All ship types and keeps ceptors role highly sought after for gangs or solo roaming but also because they use resources from the ships PG and cpu and take up valuable low slots its a nerf to the ships fitting anyway..

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Sun-Tugo Drovotet
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-11-23 18:07:27 UTC
You could just leave WCS as they are and instead deal with the whining from those who can't abide seeing ships vanish into the distance, having shrugged off the points laid upon them. THAT would be far easier, requiring no modifications to the game software.
Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#29 - 2013-11-23 18:18:02 UTC
seth Hendar wrote:
[quote=Zan Shiro]
FW is about PVP, therefore, doing FW with in mind avoiding PVP is puzzling.

Avoiding certain ships you know you can not win against, is wise. FW is a cash cow, not a player tournament.

OT: -1.
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#30 - 2013-11-23 18:42:07 UTC
Seranova Farreach wrote:
typical t1 frigs get 8 AU..

Thank you for letting me know that I could stop reading.


Reducing align time won't do anything for people in FW sites and ruin them for indys and surprise warp fits.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#31 - 2013-11-23 18:44:33 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Warp Core Stabs are good as they are now... they nerf combat ability in return for GTFO ability.

The "real" problem is that currently there are certain "combat-related" activities (i.e. FW plexes) where none of the drawbacks of WCS matter and massive profit and/or influence is gained.

The focus should be more on how to beef up FW complexes (hopefully without introducing arbitrary restrictions) to discourage the use of Warp Core Stabs.

How did you Veterans start?
Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2013-11-23 19:57:48 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Warp Core Stabs are good as they are now... they nerf combat ability in return for GTFO ability.

The "real" problem is that currently there are certain "combat-related" activities (i.e. FW plexes) where none of the drawbacks of WCS matter and massive profit and/or influence is gained.

The focus should be more on how to beef up FW complexes (hopefully without introducing arbitrary restrictions) to discourage the use of Warp Core Stabs.




Again, here is the Solution: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=289620&find=unread
TheFourteenthTry
Unicorn Balls
#33 - 2013-11-23 20:06:14 UTC
Gankers can't be this unintelligent and lazy...

You can't have it that easy guys, its is the challenge that you keep coming back for. The current limitations are really perfect because, you will never run into a PvP ship that can just warp away any ole time it wants, and also is incredibly effective in combat. This mod is for clever industrialist that wants to be able to get away from greedy and lazy gankers, because they don't need the increased lock range and speed. Or in other words EVE is meant to be played and enjoyed by more ppl than just the sadistic.
DSpite Culhach
#34 - 2013-11-23 20:23:34 UTC
Electrique Wizard wrote:
Hopelesshobo wrote:
When you fit WCS, you are not putting yourself out there to avoid PVP. You actually fit that module when you expect someone to engage you. Just because you make the tactical decision to run away, doesn't mean you have avoided PVP, because you actually put yourself into the position where someone will probably engage you.

It's the other persons fault for not equipping enough points to counter the WCS. When it comes to mining ships, I always assume they have WCS on. When I popped a skiff with a friend that had an assault frigate and a T1 frig as an escort, we allowed the 2 frigates to escape because we were not sure if the skiff had WCS on, so we just kept our points on the skiff and forced the other ships off grid.


First you say stabs doesnt always mean wanting to avoid PVP
Then you give an example where you confirmed the skiff had no intention of PVPing and and you assumed he had stabs.
Because stabs are a cowards module.


Pretty sure that putting WCS on indies and mining vessels does not make the hull owner "cowards", unless you have some weird expectation that those vessels should pvp in the first place. You know, using mining lasers.


I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
#35 - 2013-11-23 20:51:08 UTC
Terrible idea OP, one of the most worstest Roll

Evelopedia; 

The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion  †  
Iudicium Vastus
Doomheim
#36 - 2013-11-23 21:03:45 UTC
I shall repeat this in every WCS thread ever.

Solutions already exist, they're called;

1) Fitting more points
2) Fitting faction points
3) Bring friends who also all have points.

[u]Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW?[/u] No, just.. -Fit more points -Fit faction points -Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too)
Clementina
University of Caille
#37 - 2013-11-23 22:07:09 UTC
Warp core stabs are fine. You noobs just don't know how good you have it.

Back in the day there were no targeting range or scan resolution penalties for fitting warp core stabs. People would have a full rack of warp core stabs on PvP fitted battleships. That's right, the game had 8 stab Apocalypses running around ganking people. The corp Burn Eden would fly Ravens racked with stabs, killing with impunity.

If faction warfare people have just one stab, fit a warp scrambler, your target will be so surprised to not be entering warp then they push the button. If they are racked with stabs you should bring some friends with some warp disruptors.
Higgs Maken
The Metal Box Company
#38 - 2013-11-23 23:57:39 UTC
TheFourteenthTry wrote:
Gankers can't be this unintelligent and lazy...

You can't have it that easy guys, its is the challenge that you keep coming back for. The current limitations are really perfect because, you will never run into a PvP ship that can just warp away any ole time it wants, and also is incredibly effective in combat. This mod is for clever industrialist that wants to be able to get away from greedy and lazy gankers, because they don't need the increased lock range and speed. Or in other words EVE is meant to be played and enjoyed by more ppl than just the sadistic.


Because it's gankers? Come on, they gate camp and ***** in forum about low sec being dead, how to bring more people into low sec and such. Give miner and others a reason to be there, they will be there ; but if that reason is for them(miners) to lose their ship, who in the right frame of mind would be there. This is thread is no difference, someone probably fit WCS and got away, CryCryCry CCP please nerf WCS so we can have risk free and easy kill.
Sun-Tugo Drovotet
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-11-24 14:27:21 UTC
The whiners in this thread and, indeed, the whole game don't like easy prey to slip from their grasps. It bruises the ego and people who go for easy kills have fairly fragile egos at the best of times.

If the game needs modifying, let's petition for an NPC that locks onto whiners and blows up the ship. This NPC will chase the whiner through warp, be indestructible and dish out dps that would make even the most pathetic of bitches STFU. Sorted!



LIKE THIS POST!!!
Izzy Ankhavees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2013-11-24 16:33:35 UTC
Nerf cloaks, Nerf stabs, nerf what not to simply resume EVE to a game of Standoffs.

If you are trully a PVPer, you may cheer the multiplicity of things that can happen. IF you are just incapable of tackling people sucessfully, you ask for nerf those modules.

How long before people learn that you can find cloaked ships, and it is not hard, you may not warp scramble a ship with a miriad of stabs, but that is not the only thing you can do to prevent warp ?

But what is really nasty is how long it is going to take for people to start fighting people that can actually counter instead of asking to remove any counter other than the ones they can handle ?

[i]"Perfect crimes do not exist, for to be a crime, it must be proven." "Make the body count unacceptable to ensure your own safety." "Basic rule of covert ops: let someone else do your dirty work.[/i]"
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