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What marauder after bastion?
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Egravant Alduin
Ascendance Rising
Ascendance..
#21 - 2013-11-22 10:38:32 UTC
So most of you suggest golem and some vargur.No paladin or kronos.I ll go for golem and I hope it s good.

Feel the wrath of the GECKO!
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#22 - 2013-11-22 10:54:25 UTC
vargur against angels, merc and serp, golem against anything, kronus against serp and merc, paladin against sansha, blood and drones.

also the golems here are so horrendously overtanked I'm not sure of I should cry or laugh.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-11-22 11:20:15 UTC  |  Edited by: ChromeStriker
[Golem, PvE]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 150
Target Painter II
Target Painter II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Bastion Module I
Salvager II
Salvager II
Salvager II

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II

Warrior II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5
Light Armor Maintenance Bot I x1
Warrior II x4

Pop 100k away n shoot away, plenty of tank for almost any Lv 4 at that range (you could even use bastion for even more/ add more tank for harder sites). If you have specific rats you can use the correct hardeners.

MWD for usefullness (swap for tank if you want)... with the rigs and TPs your more than doubleing the sig of whatever you shoot at.

Drop a tractor unit at the begining of the fight.

No Worries
To mare
Advanced Technology
#24 - 2013-11-22 11:45:33 UTC
golem is the good all arounder
vargur is the bad all arounder
paladin with bastion is the best one if you fight EM weak rats
kronos its another very good one with bastion kind of limited by its damage type but very good if you use where the rats are weak to kin/th
Gimme more Cynos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-11-22 12:07:14 UTC
I Accidentally YourShip wrote:
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Golem - Dory

High -
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Bastion Mode I
Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I
Salvager II
Small Tractor Beam II

Medium -
Pith C-Type Large Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Amplifier II
Target Painter II
Target Painter II

Low -
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Rig -
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II

Drones -
x5 Hobgoblin II
x5 Warrior II
x5 Salvage Drone I

Cargo -
x12800 Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Mobile Tractor Unit

1001 DPS
Able to hit anything within 118km
Will usually pop cruisers and frigates in one shot
Over 8mins of cap time
Mobile tractor unit for those long to reach wrecks
Tank is 900 plus every 3.2secs
Anything not T2 is because it is Meta 4 and does better then it's T2 brother, or because the bastion only has a I one version.
Fit cost way under 1.5bil


Holy dicks this is so overtanked. Medium boosters are for lazys, L2cap control.

[Golem, Golemderp]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Gist B-Type Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Target Painter II
Target Painter II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Bastion Module I
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II

5m 27s of cap with a burst tank of 368, plenty enough to burn to where you need to and get into bastion if necessary. Bastion the tank pushes 983. You have enough cargo to use cap boosters for even the longest of missions.

The b-type LSB is only 250ish, slightly more than double the medium booster. If you can't somehow afford an additional 100m for a booster that performs much better with a cap booster then you probably shouldn't be flying a golem. The fit is still very cheap.


Failfit is fail. Cap-booster on a golem paired with a Large SB, while talking about overtanking. Hilarious :D Made my Day.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2013-11-22 12:15:59 UTC
Egravant Alduin wrote:
So most of you suggest golem and some vargur.No paladin or kronos.I ll go for golem and I hope it s good.



I have all (except kronos) and for level 4 the paladin is by FAR the most efficient (just stick tachyons )

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-11-22 12:22:04 UTC
hellcane wrote:
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
You don't need a MWD with a ship able to hit 118km and a tractor that goes 125km. And you do count drone damage as I do use my drones on frigates within 15km. Perfect Gloem done and done

I guess going 100m/s while traveling 30km to the gate in say worlds collide is good.

Or

You take away the unnecessary tank and have the speed if/when you need it.

Adding drone DPS is just a way to inflate your #s. Nothing more. Just like mach EFT warriors adding sentry DPS



No really, you just jump away blast the pocket and jump back a minute later.

There is rarely a reason to slow bloat anywhere if you use just a ~little~ bit of forethought and/or don't screw up and hit the MJD when you are aligned in the wrong direction.....as an added bonus auto-targeters go something like 215km, so you can carry a few to basically pull baddies that start outside of lock range.

and its perfectly valid to use drone DPS, there are a large number of missions that you can basically blast off a couple elite frigs and they turn loose your lights and ignore everything smaller than a cruiser, while you are clearing off big things, that is one of the techniques that I use on AE for that matter, full spawn the pocket MJD off release the drones and start with the big stuff and work my way down.
Gimme more Cynos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-11-22 13:42:01 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Egravant Alduin wrote:
So most of you suggest golem and some vargur.No paladin or kronos.I ll go for golem and I hope it s good.



I have all (except kronos) and for level 4 the paladin is by FAR the most efficient (just stick tachyons )


Until it meets Minmatar or Angels. :D
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2013-11-22 15:01:41 UTC
Gimme more Cynos wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Egravant Alduin wrote:
So most of you suggest golem and some vargur.No paladin or kronos.I ll go for golem and I hope it s good.



I have all (except kronos) and for level 4 the paladin is by FAR the most efficient (just stick tachyons )


Until it meets Minmatar or Angels. :D



Why would I do that? Just fly for the correct corporation and you will not face angels. Minamtar tank is not same as angels. Some of their battleships have their hole exaclty in EM!!!!

Also .. almost no one flies against empires. Most peopel just refuse those missions sicne they will lock you out of a sector very fast.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#30 - 2013-11-22 15:40:19 UTC
There is little reason to have any type of prop mod on a Golem or Rattlesnake, you can slow boat to the gate while killing and bastion when you get to gate. I have never taken over 10 to 15 minutes for a L4. Everything is about technique.

And I agree ASBs and cap boosters are for PvP, not PvE. And Golem doesn't need a stable tank. I get 8mins, that's more then good enough. Use a med or a large shield booster and you are good to go. As the golem has more then enough PG and CPU I don't see any reason to not use a large shield booster instead of a medium one, as it doesn't effect DPS or the effectiveness of the ship in anyway. Also there is NO such thing as over powered or over tanked, just made up words for people who have little else to do then talk tough through a computer haha. The idea is to make the best tank and have the best DPS you can. I did take one invul off for a third TP, but that was more because I wanted to do the predator 3 dot thing then any other reason haha.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2013-11-22 16:06:55 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
There is little reason to have any type of prop mod on a Golem or Rattlesnake, you can slow boat to the gate while killing and bastion when you get to gate. I have never taken over 10 to 15 minutes for a L4. Everything is about technique.

And I agree ASBs and cap boosters are for PvP, not PvE. And Golem doesn't need a stable tank. I get 8mins, that's more then good enough. Use a med or a large shield booster and you are good to go. As the golem has more then enough PG and CPU I don't see any reason to not use a large shield booster instead of a medium one, as it doesn't effect DPS or the effectiveness of the ship in anyway. Also there is NO such thing as over powered or over tanked, just made up words for people who have little else to do then talk tough through a computer haha. The idea is to make the best tank and have the best DPS you can. I did take one invul off for a third TP, but that was more because I wanted to do the predator 3 dot thing then any other reason haha.



Surely there is overtanking.


Using a deadspace tank to run a level 3 mission iIS overtanking. You could simply use no tank and put track computers and damage mods isntead

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#32 - 2013-11-22 16:13:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Thaddeus Eggeras
If the tank does not affect your DPS, there is no such thing as overtanks. Just as if your DPS doesnt affect your tank, there isnt such a thing as over kill. And if they do affect the other, that isn't "overtanking" or "overkill", that's ineffective, and if someone adds a VERY pricey part to thier ship again; doesn't make it "overtanking" or "overkill", it makes it cost ineffective and unnecessary risk. Those terms are terms people came up with because they weren't creative enough or didn't think out side the box, so they came up with these terms to compensate for their inability to be creative.

Best tank + the best damage = best design
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2013-11-22 21:37:13 UTC
The Vargur is a BEAST!
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#34 - 2013-11-22 21:41:59 UTC
The Vargur is the only Marauder I haven't seen do bastion mode :^(
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#35 - 2013-11-22 21:45:59 UTC
That's bullshit, I just watched the Vargur bastion mode, way cool. ALL the Marauders BUT the Golem look amazing while doing bastion. Golems makes no since and the new golem looks like **** too. FIX IT CCP!
Gimme more Cynos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#36 - 2013-11-22 21:56:46 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Gimme more Cynos wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Egravant Alduin wrote:
So most of you suggest golem and some vargur.No paladin or kronos.I ll go for golem and I hope it s good.



I have all (except kronos) and for level 4 the paladin is by FAR the most efficient (just stick tachyons )


Until it meets Minmatar or Angels. :D



Why would I do that? Just fly for the correct corporation and you will not face angels. Minamtar tank is not same as angels. Some of their battleships have their hole exaclty in EM!!!!

Also .. almost no one flies against empires. Most peopel just refuse those missions sicne they will lock you out of a sector very fast.


Ok, let's completely ignore that some of the more valuable missions are infact against enemies like Angels and Minmatar (which have some BS's with thick EM-tanks) - How does this affect my point? Paladin suckz ballz against Angels and against some of the matari BS. Calling this "most efficient" is a little - well, it's not accurate.

Paladin is a good ship - no doubt, but it has it's weaknesses. Imho, the Golem doesn't suffer from those - that's why I would say it's easily the best marauder (thanks to it's versatility - it doesn't have these "Oh man, why does it take half an hour to grind through that BS"-moments).
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#37 - 2013-11-22 22:21:13 UTC
Okay, here's the fit for a Vargur:


[Vargur, PvE]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer

X-Large Shield Booster II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
Bastion Module I
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]


Civilian Mining Drone x15
Mobile Depot x1
Targeting Range Script x3
Scan Resolution Script x3
Optimal Range Script x1
Tracking Speed Script x1
Republic Fleet EMP L x5000
Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L x5000
Republic Fleet Fusion L x5000


Rigs are empty, because, well, fit whatever you want.
At Locking Range, you're at 50% Falloff. That means, you hit astonishingly well.
You have a Scanres of 600mm with resolution scripts.
You have an MJD, that's all the mobility you'll ever need (60 seconds for any distance between 0 and 200km. Practice it.)
You have that Mobile Depot with you. And you have tons of spare cargo for Autocannons, Tankmods, Tractorbeams, Salvagers, warpcorestabs, nanofibers, capacitor booster and charges, ... ANYTHING.
Civilian Mining Drones, because with a Vargur and MJD i can't see why you would ever have something so close to you that you can actually assign drones to it, or want to wait for the travel time of them.

You accept a mission. You warp there. You go in. You MJD into the spot you want (so that a second MJD Jump will put you on the accel gate). You go Bastion, drop the depot, lock anything and blap it. You refit to whatever you need.
You do this with every single pocket and mission.
You dock, turn in a mission.

Rinse
and
Repeat.



Vargur > Paladin/Kronos/Golem.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2013-11-22 23:19:37 UTC
Gimme more Cynos wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Gimme more Cynos wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Egravant Alduin wrote:
So most of you suggest golem and some vargur.No paladin or kronos.I ll go for golem and I hope it s good.



I have all (except kronos) and for level 4 the paladin is by FAR the most efficient (just stick tachyons )


Until it meets Minmatar or Angels. :D



Why would I do that? Just fly for the correct corporation and you will not face angels. Minamtar tank is not same as angels. Some of their battleships have their hole exaclty in EM!!!!

Also .. almost no one flies against empires. Most peopel just refuse those missions sicne they will lock you out of a sector very fast.


Ok, let's completely ignore that some of the more valuable missions are infact against enemies like Angels and Minmatar (which have some BS's with thick EM-tanks) - How does this affect my point? Paladin suckz ballz against Angels and against some of the matari BS. Calling this "most efficient" is a little - well, it's not accurate.

Paladin is a good ship - no doubt, but it has it's weaknesses. Imho, the Golem doesn't suffer from those - that's why I would say it's easily the best marauder (thanks to it's versatility - it doesn't have these "Oh man, why does it take half an hour to grind through that BS"-moments).




let me be clear again.. I NEVER get ANY missions agaisnt angels. Because i Live in amarr space!!! Goem takes that tiem back while killing frigates that paladin insta pop.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#39 - 2013-11-23 00:01:30 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
let me be clear again.. I NEVER get ANY missions agaisnt angels. Because i Live in amarr space!!! Goem takes that tiem back while killing frigates that paladin insta pop.


Hm. Just to throw it out: most L4 agents -- even those in Amarr space -- hand out AE. There are individual agents who don't, but I've yet to have seen an entire corporation without it. It's also a pretty decent mission to run if you can rush it like crazy so it's not entirely unreasonable to plan to occasionally have to deal with it.

That said, I've run it in a Nightmare and... yeah, tachs work. It's not ideal but it does work.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2013-11-23 00:17:35 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
let me be clear again.. I NEVER get ANY missions agaisnt angels. Because i Live in amarr space!!! Goem takes that tiem back while killing frigates that paladin insta pop.


Hm. Just to throw it out: most L4 agents -- even those in Amarr space -- hand out AE. There are individual agents who don't, but I've yet to have seen an entire corporation without it. It's also a pretty decent mission to run if you can rush it like crazy so it's not entirely unreasonable to plan to occasionally have to deal with it.

That said, I've run it in a Nightmare and... yeah, tachs work. It's not ideal but it does work.



I tought was the whole corp. Maybe i got lucky with the agent i selected then. The only mission with angels i get is WC agaisnt angels and sansha... then i just go the sansha route

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
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