Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Yes the Hawk looks good, but so do all the assault frigates. Other people who started at the same time as me have access to superior ships in every class not just a handful of good ships here and there, with very specific and limiting roles, not only that but they're not even the best at those very specific roles.

I'm in my RLML "frig killer" Caracal , someone comes in with a Vexor... if he tackles me on a gate he can do 700dps out to 20km with 200mm rails and still have a better tank; RIP frig killer caracal but obviously this is not what caracals are for anyway. However if I get to dictate range and try to kite him instead, he can still do 600dps because most of it comes from drones. Try to shoot his drones he'll just keep rotating them, and when it comes to reload time I'm no longer applying my already inferior dps, but he can maintain his dps with constancy. Is he helpless if a frig comes along, because Caracals the only cruiser that can kill frigs? nope he can use Warrior 2's and he'll still have 428dps that's enough to pop most frigates in seconds, hell it's enough to pop most caracals in seconds. So he's better at brawling, better at kiting, better tank, better at killing frigates and destroyers, better at killing cruisers, better in gangs... so what is the point of flying a caracal? What's a Drake for? and I don't know much about HAC's but I'm sure if I look into them I'll find the Caldari variants are bottom of the pile there too, even the best pirate ships are for Gallente/Minmattar pilots. I made a lot of Isk and I never know what ship to buy with it because all the ones I trained for turned out to be rubbish. I got a Drake Navy Issue and I was happy enough with that until my friend who started the same time as me shared a mission in his standard Brutix, and was getting double my DPS at similar range, he was able to kill all sizes of targets far faster than me, he wasn't even in a Navy Brutix.

Why this nerf, I had looked for a few Caldari buffs if anything, but this has just left me totally exasperated! What is the problem here, I don't understand it, I wasn't happy with the Caracal as it was but now it's just a complete joke.

BTW here's my Vexor fit, I've not fitted one before so I'm sure there are many better ways to fit it but just for illustration purposes i used this:

High's: 4x 200mm railgun II
Med's: x5 prototype engine enervator, Warp Scrambler II, Medium Cap Booster II, Experimental 10mn MWD
Low's: Dmg Control II, 2x Drone damage amplifier II, 800mm tungsten plate, Reactor Control II
Rigs: Medium Hybrid Burst Aereator I (you could pay a little extra and go for t2 and get and extra 15dps, or get a drone durability rig for more drone hitpoints instead) Medium Anti Explosive pump, Medium Trimark Armor Pump.

That's far superior both at killing frigs and taking on other cruisers, both at long range and short range.

Regardless of these changes I decided to switch to Gallente anyway so I'll have some decent options after months wasted training for Caldari, it's just unfair and I don't understand why they have to make it even worse for Caldari pilots than it already is, they seem to want Caldari ships to be a class below everyone else.

Well, I really must say that I'm disappointed. I decided to try FW for the first time and needed to raise my standings up to join. My Caracal with RLMLs could not break the tank on some of the LVL 1 mission rats. I have 155 Million SP(All PVP, no industrial)... and was using the typical PVP setup....

W...T...F...

Yep, lots of Caldari ship can't hold a candle to Gallente one's at the moment.


Missile haters will always say Caldari PvP ships are OP, you know the mantra; press F1, shoot, dumb man dumb... you're not supposed to kill anything that way so they won't stop lobbying until all of Caldari ships are completely crippled for anything.

Dear CCP, if your intention with the RLML changes was to make them completely useless for anything more than shooting rookie ships (if you can catch them with the warp changes) Congratulations, you succeeded

Fitting them in unbonused aux slots means fitting meta 4's or gimping tank due to PG requirements.
Now get 51 DPS with 18 rounds instead of 49 dps with 80 rounds (2 un-bonused launchers)
Prior to Rubicon they were a reasonable compromise (for shooting drones) vs fitting neuts or vamps. Now, if the fight looks like lasting more than a minute, don't fit RLML's.
My caracal is currently sitting with 5 empty weapon slots as I really have no use for it.

I mean seriously, to totally downgrade the usability of a weapon the way this has been done is just criminal.



We are quickly getting to the point where missiles can be removed completely and all missile boats re-purposed to use Hybrid's.

That's the stupidest thing I read in this thread despite the level of stupidity here being crazy high.

Caldari frigates all are top dog, and even sometimes OP with missiles. Cormoran is a long range beast, and the Corax is only overshadowed by the Talwar. In fact, I defy you to point only one caldari ship which isn't extremely powerful, because since the rebalance I can't think about one in this case.

And missiles users will always lobby for their ship to only require full tank&gank to kill any ship flying in their range without any tackle, and still complain that as they can't alpha a frigate it's a given.

Caracal with web+scram still have more ehp and speed than a buffer thorax, and the same dps with HAM, but with ten times the range...

Truth is misiles do are a dumb "hit F1" weapon system. That is powerful on its own exactly like the ability of turret to blap frigates in certain circumtances. These abilities need to be balanced in one way or another. For turrets, it's tracking which prevent you from hitting your target if she is too close and range which prevent you from hitting her if she is too far. Missiles have none of these drawback, but they have to have some too.

Sorry expect logic in what I read. Either the sentence in question means nothing or is a complaint for caldari ships being bad.

Because a lots of gallente ships can't hold a candle to caldari ships too. Is the Hawk even killable in a duel for example ?

But let's say she is right ; can you please enumerate all these inferior caldari ships which can't hold a candle to gallente ones ? I am really curious to learn about these caldari ships which don't stand a chance against gallente ones.

PS : Or maybe it's a problem with gallente ships being too good and missiles user being jealous instead of complaining about blasters and drones OPness ?

Yeah so I tried it.

Just like I thought its too damn long to do anything useful with. God help you need to change ammo, your target is gone or dead because you ever get a shot off.

Rubbish! the people who kite in frigates need to be masters of range and cap control, because of the paper thin tank any slight error will mean almost instant death, and the extremely low dps (50-60 on my condor's) you will certainly have plenty of time to make those mistakes. Personally I can't do it, I always end up either letting them get out of disruptor range or worse getting too close, and it happens in split seconds by the time i realise it's too late. 1v1 pvp is very rare now, but when it does happen it's generally in low sec fw plexes... you don't always get to pick the range battles start at, if your condor gets scrammed at the warp in your dead. You want to know what requires no skill... sitting on a warp in beacon with a brawling turret ship, waiting for war targets to come in and when they do just lock, scram, web, keep in optimal range and wait to see who wins. That's genuinely easy, kiting is not easy you have no idea what your talking about.

Turrets have an even bigger advantage when it comes to brawling, does that mean missiles should have a new extreme dps close range option? Or do we just accept that missiles should have certain roles and turrets should have their place as well. If they nerf light missiles to the point of uselessness like they have with heavy and now rapid lights then I think it's time turrets loose all their close range dps options since they are far too OP at brawling compared to their missile equivalents. Or do you think missiles should be equal with turrets at kiting and vastly inferior at brawling, ie useless.

Just a thought that I haven't thought about much, if the issue is long range coupled with high DPS, what would happen if rapid launchers shot the short range ammo instead?

We would have Rapid Rocket Launchers and Rapid Heavy Assault Missile Launcher (Rename Heavy Assault Missiles to Assault Missiles. 'Heavy' isn't a necessary descriptor since there are no light assaults.)