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Falcon vs Rook?
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Skittles Aldent
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#1 - 2011-11-20 07:58:20 UTC
What is the advantages or disadvantages to these ships?

[Rook, Rook: Oh Snap]
Damage Control II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II

1MN MicroWarpdrive II
ECM - Multispectral Jammer II
ECM - Multispectral Jammer II
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
BZ-5 Neutralizing Spatial Destabilizer ECM
'Umbra' I White Noise ECM

Heavy Missile Launcher II
Heavy Missile Launcher II
Heavy Missile Launcher II
Heavy Missile Launcher II
Heavy Missile Launcher II

Medium Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
Medium Particle Dispersion Augmentor I


Hobgoblin II


or the Falcon:

[Falcon, Falcon: USS Thunderbolt]
Gravimetric Backup Array II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II

ECM - Phase Inverter II
ECM - Phase Inverter II
ECM - Ion Field Projector II
ECM - Spatial Destabilizer II
ECM - Spatial Destabilizer II
ECM - White Noise Generator II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Medium 'Vehemence' I Shockwave Charge
Medium 'Notos' Explosive Charge I
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher

Medium Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
Medium Particle Dispersion Augmentor I

I initially used a different Falcon set up though, I dropped the 2 extra ECM's for a MWD and a web, I also had a disruptor on it instead of the scram, but was told the scram is good because it disables the MWD's.

My question is, both ships seem to have the same fits and purposes. So should I drop the 2 ECM's on the Falcon, add a MWD and the web, and change the scram for a disruptor, that way I can jump something cloaked?
Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE
#2 - 2011-11-20 10:02:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Frayn
I'm glad you asked that question! You see, the Falcon can warp while cloaked! Isn't that neat? Not many people know that, except for every single Eve player but you!
Skittles Aldent
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#3 - 2011-11-20 10:13:23 UTC
Arthur Frayn wrote:
I'm glad you asked that question! You see, the Falcon can warp while cloaked! Isn't that neat? Not many people know that, except for every single Eve player but you!


Yes I realized that, other than that really rather apparent detail expand on why I would pick one over the other.

With the Falcon should I drop the Scam and add an MWD + Disruptor?
Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE
#4 - 2011-11-20 10:29:50 UTC
Skittles Aldent wrote:
Yes I realized that, other than that really rather apparent detail expand on why I would pick one over the other.

With the Falcon should I drop the Scam and add an MWD + Disruptor?


Rook can do some damage by itself; that's its only real advantage. And yes, mwd + disruptor is good especially if you stay out of a target's web/scram range. However your smartbombs aren't going to kill much before you cap out and die.

It'd help if you actually outlined what you want to achieve. Solo or group pvp? Losec roaming or gatecamping? Can flipping with an alt?
Skittles Aldent
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#5 - 2011-11-20 10:42:56 UTC
Arthur Frayn wrote:
Skittles Aldent wrote:
Yes I realized that, other than that really rather apparent detail expand on why I would pick one over the other.

With the Falcon should I drop the Scam and add an MWD + Disruptor?


Rook can do some damage by itself; that's its only real advantage. And yes, mwd + disruptor is good especially if you stay out of a target's web/scram range. However your smartbombs aren't going to kill much before you cap out and die.

It'd help if you actually outlined what you want to achieve. Solo or group pvp? Losec roaming or gatecamping? Can flipping with an alt?


Okay thanks! So the Rook fit isn't bad?

And it'll be fleet fighting in WH space. I fit the Smartbombs to kill any annoying drones that come near me.
Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE
#6 - 2011-11-20 10:52:33 UTC
Skittles Aldent wrote:
[quote=Arthur Frayn]And it'll be fleet fighting in WH space. I fit the Smartbombs to kill any annoying drones that come near me.


If that's what you're doing, then smartbombs are good to keep yourself from dying, although precision light missiles with assault launchers might do a better job at killing drones. Your job isn't to hit targets directly since your fleet mates should have plenty of guns. You probably don't even need a scram since your fleet should have ceptors for that. If you don't, you're doing it wrong. Your job would be to stay out at long range and jam the biggest damage dealers.
Skittles Aldent
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#7 - 2011-11-20 10:56:47 UTC
Arthur Frayn wrote:
Skittles Aldent wrote:
[quote=Arthur Frayn]And it'll be fleet fighting in WH space. I fit the Smartbombs to kill any annoying drones that come near me.


If that's what you're doing, then smartbombs are good to keep yourself from dying, although precision light missiles with assault launchers might do a better job at killing drones. Your job isn't to hit targets directly since your fleet mates should have plenty of guns. You probably don't even need a scram since your fleet should have ceptors for that. If you don't, you're doing it wrong. Your job would be to stay out at long range and jam the biggest damage dealers.


Yeah for sure, the idea was the Falcon can jump the intended target, web, jam, and disrupt it, until helps arrives, but that puts the Falcon at risk of getting jumped as well, because it is so close.

Just kind of confused on how to fit it, since the fits seem way to close to being the same.
Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE
#8 - 2011-11-20 11:12:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Frayn
Skittles Aldent wrote:
Yeah for sure, the idea was the Falcon can jump the intended target, web, jam, and disrupt it, until helps arrives


If you want to use an expensive T2 ship for that kind of role, you'll wind up experiencing a tingling sensation and then death.
Elindreal
Planetary Interactors
#9 - 2011-11-20 18:18:38 UTC
imo a falcon/rook isn't very good for solo pvp, for that you want a curse/pilgrim, or hell even a lachesis.

as such, fitting a scram/disruptor is useless. falcon should decloak at range after the battle begins.
rook will be in the battle, but should have a mwd and do it's best to keep out of range by using heavy missiles and jamming from afar.
Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
#10 - 2011-11-20 23:01:52 UTC
For worhmhole ops being able to warp cloaked is invaluable, its not something to 'put aside' when comparing effectiveness of two ships
Lili Lu
#11 - 2011-11-20 23:26:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Elindreal wrote:
imo a falcon/rook isn't very good for solo pvp, for that you want a curse/pilgrim, or hell even a lachesis.

as such, fitting a scram/disruptor is useless. falcon should decloak at range after the battle begins.
rook will be in the battle, but should have a mwd and do it's best to keep out of range by using heavy missiles and jamming from afar.


Pfft. What you think any of the other recons don't have a weak tank as well. And just because you have 40km web range does not mean you can solo tackle there with a Rapier. It means you have to get within 24km and web. It means you can't just load all your mids with webs either. You need a mwd, and a point in addition to web(s) and some shield tank, or I suppose you could go plate in low if you are willing to accept the agility hit (not such a great thing in a solo ship).

I'm looking at some of the fits here and they all make the age old mistake of ecm ships, nothing but ecm in the mids. Sorry the days of 200km permajamming falcons are long gone. Accept that if you want to solo you are going to have to reduce your jammers, maybe even go with multis and not be assured a jam with each one (the horrors), so that you can fit mwd, tackle and tank.

The Pilgrim used to sport heavy drones and the old nos of death (none of this equalization of cap nonsense) iirc. It was a brown pants inducing ship. But even in its prime its tank was not the stong point. Nano Curses are gone too. All the recons even with 40km web or neuts have to get in close if they trully want to immobilize a victim. Even the Gallente recons if they want to apply a scram. You pretty much cannot escape the 20km + or - zone to solo tackle regardless of which ship you flying. And they all have to sacrifice slots for some old fashioned tank. They can't just rely on their e-war. Stop trying to rely only on ecm.

edit- and op, your rook has a 1mn mwd? and your falcon has no mwd. Big necessity to solo (a rarity in eve combat as well) is a mwd whether in 0.0, lowsec, or wormies.