Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Thats because gunnery 2 is (and always has been) a prereq for training Weapon Upgrades. Dont worry though, you will not be required to spend the several minutes to train "unneccesary" skills, as every character is actually born with gunnery level 2.

My thoughts on the first page remain the same. I still think it would be better to have sub certificates that when we get a level in all sub certs, we just see the name of the overall cert we get to reduce clutter (for instance have small Rail turrets and Small Blaster turret certs, if both are at the same level we just see Small Hybrid Turret If all turrets small to large are the same level we just see a level for Sub Cap Hybrid turrets.

Resource harvesting and manufacturing still need work. Again, t2 strip miners and crystals require the refining skills, so a master miner needs more than just the skills in the resource harvesting cert to be the best they can. This also means a person with hulk mastery might not actually have mastered the hulk; either give us a advanced resource harvesting cert, or give barges the refining cert.

Another thing I notice that I don't agree with is that mastery levels are the same as the cert levels themselves. THis causes two problems, the first problem is some aspects are more important to a ship than others, and the other is at higher cert levels, you might not even need or be able to utilize what you have gotten with the certs. For the latter example, turn to Logistics vessels, they all require the advanced target management cert, that means at mastery 4 you need the skill advanced target management at 4 and at mastery 5 you need that skill at 5, that allow you to target eleven and twelve targets respectively; this badly represents mastering the ship as logis can only have 10 targets. Level 5 mastery, if it weren't the same as the level of all certs required, would mean level 5 mastery on a logi could only require adv target mgmt 3, which is actually realistic.

At the same time, as it's reason for existence, I would say the level of the mobile rep certs should actually be a tier higher than the mastery at least.

Also, again, the manufacturing and research skills should be better split up between T1,2 and 3.


I was thinking some time ago about the lost starter professions. They were interesting to see, though perhaps not entirely relevant but they did give me an idea: Non ship masteries. Add in masteries not linked to specific ships to represent various professions in eve like trader, miner and combat pilot for x type of ship to gather certs together a bit for reference purposes.

I was wondering, isn't the Minmatar carrier suppose to be an armor ship?
Since it has more low slots, I would have thought that it would have required the armor tanking certificate, just like the hurricane and the typhoon.

5 is only needed for the "super elite look at me ma'" level For Masteries level 4 you have it at 1 which doesn't take long if you have access to the other specializations. But I agree it isn't that useful right now.

Personally I think you should just make drones more like missiles and stop this nonsense of useful drones vs non useful drones.

IE, all have same speed, tracking, dmg, etc, but have them do different damage types. I swear you guys make everything so complicated when it doesnt need to be.

You tease me by making Adv Target Management IV necessary for mastery lvl 4 on ship that natively locks 10 targets (Kronos).

What do you think of introducing a new level of masteries for the level 5 one, but keeping the current level 5 as some sort of golden/elite level? Right now there is a downright massive skill gap between a level 4 and a level 5 mastery, which I feel definitely decreases the potential usefulness of the mastery system for new and experienced players alike.

shouldn't all mining ships have industrial drones as certs rather than scout drones?

Assault frigs can lock 5 target maximum. But for 4 and 5 level mastery it required Target Managment V. Why ?

I have compiled a gallery of screenshots of certificates with questionable (to downright absurd) requirements.

Reasoning for each...in order...below:

Manufacturing I:
Requires Anchoring III. No one who has just begun manufacturing a few modules or bits of ammo in a station needs this. Poor guide, misleading.

Production Efficiency V is required outside of producing items for yourself. Even then you could almost always buy them cheaper than producing with PE at 1. Yet this is not here and Anchoring III is. This is a terrible, actively harmful and misleading guide for anyone starting to manufacture. You could make the case that this skill as a whole shouldn't exist as it is absolutely required when manufacturing is involved, unless you actively despise having isk.

Manufacturing III:

Anchoring V, still not needed for production. One character might need anchoring related to pos activities, yes. But this is neither strictly manufacturing, nor is it relevant in most cases (not every production character also needs anchoring to V) Especially not with a mid-skill certificate.

Outpost construction III
No, just no. If this must be here, push it up in the certificate but the fact it is here at all is grotesque.

Manufacturing IV:

Suddenly, Subsystem Technology skills. No introduction at I, the only level required for actual manufacturing, straight in at IV out of the blue, for a type of manufacturing most people never touch, even those who have amassed huge fortunes manufacturing at a scale many could only dream of.

Perhaps the manufacturing certificate could use some differentiation?
eg.
T2 Manufacturing Certificate
T3 Manufacturing Certificate
Capital Manufacturing Certificate
Structure Manufacturing Certificate
Drug Manufacturing Certificate

Stuffing outposts and everything else into one certificate seems crazy.

Datacore IV:

Random Subsystem Technology skills again. Rank I does not appear anywhere, then suddenly IV at rank IV.

Research IV

Research Project Management? This is useless until R&D agents are fixed. A completely misleading mastery level. The datacores you can obtain even with this skill maxed are so absurdly small it doesn't actually help you with research. At best it is a supporting skill to research, rather than research itself. It is poorly named.

Trade IV:

Requires marketing V??? Shouldn't this be IV? Four is the rank which unlocks further skills.

Trade V:

Opposite problem here.... Requires Visibility IV instead of V?

Scanning IV:

Survey IV. While it technically fits in this category, this is completely unhelpful for anyone using certificates as a guide for proficiency in a particular pursuit. Please do not recommend training Survey to up and coming explorers.

Supercapital Target Management III / Advanced Target Management I:

The disparity in requirements for these mastery ranks is silly.