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Dev Blog: Warp Drive Active - Warp Acceleration Changes With EVE Online: Rubicon

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xttz
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#101 - 2013-11-20 11:20:59 UTC
Warping with any capital now feels like being in TIDI. The worst part is that it's not even clear when the warp will end... you see the remaining distance counting down, and just as you think it will end, it drops even smaller:

15km...
10km...
6km...
3000m...
2100m...
1400m..
850m...

Acceleration isn't so big a deal, but when you're landing on grid it can easily take 15-20 seconds before the ship is controllable again, longer than most other ships now spend in warp.

Unless you plan to add a better visual indication of when a warp will end, I think the best solution is a lower cap on deceleration. We currently have a maximum value of 2, I think it would be fairer if instead the minimum value was 1 and the maximum upped slightly to 2.5 or even 3. This would preserve the difference between ship classes without appearing on grid too fast or too slowly.
xttz
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#102 - 2013-11-20 12:00:57 UTC
Another thought came to mind... currently all possible warp speed buffs in the game are percentage-based. This means they give a bigger relative boost to smaller ships like Interceptors, and a trivial boost to battleships and capitals.

What if we have a module that worked like a MAPC for warp speed - adding a low fixed value that would be of little use to Interceptors but can really help things like Battleships? Adding 0.5 or 1 AU/s wouldn't be worth a module slot on a frigate-sized ship, but could make a respectable difference for Battleship-class.
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#103 - 2013-11-20 20:18:30 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Masterplan
^^^ That's a reasonable suggestion. Noted down!

ihcn wrote:
Would it be possible to get this warp chart with more sig figs? Just one decimal place would really really help make sure i've got my formula right, especially for the small ships.

Also: I'm finding that my computed warp times are off by a constant factor (ie the error isn't affected by warp distance). It seems to be related somewhat to the fact that ships don't seem to come out of warp at 1/ms as the formula would imply. It seems like almost all of the error goes away if I account for all ships exiting warp at 100 m/s. Am I on the right track, is there some part of the formula that wasn't mentioned in the dev blog, or do I need to recheck my formulas?

For reference i'm the guy who made this http://eve-utils.net/maps/shortest_path/, and I'm currently updating the formulas

You're mostly correct, yes. The exact time depends on the max (sub-warp) speed of the ship. Obviously this varies a lot even within a single ship class, and even more so depending on fittings. Ships will exit warp mode when their warping speed drops below 50% of sub-warp max speed, or 100m/s, whichever is the lower.
My chart is written assuming a simplified fixed exit at 100m/s, so it sounds like your math is good :)

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
ihcn
Life. Universe. Everything.
#104 - 2013-11-21 05:14:50 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
^^^ That's a reasonable suggestion. Noted down!

ihcn wrote:
Would it be possible to get this warp chart with more sig figs? Just one decimal place would really really help make sure i've got my formula right, especially for the small ships.

Also: I'm finding that my computed warp times are off by a constant factor (ie the error isn't affected by warp distance). It seems to be related somewhat to the fact that ships don't seem to come out of warp at 1/ms as the formula would imply. It seems like almost all of the error goes away if I account for all ships exiting warp at 100 m/s. Am I on the right track, is there some part of the formula that wasn't mentioned in the dev blog, or do I need to recheck my formulas?

For reference i'm the guy who made this http://eve-utils.net/maps/shortest_path/, and I'm currently updating the formulas

You're mostly correct, yes. The exact time depends on the max (sub-warp) speed of the ship. Obviously this varies a lot even within a single ship class, and even more so depending on fittings. Ships will exit warp mode when their warping speed drops below 50% of sub-warp max speed, or 100m/s, whichever is the lower.
My chart is written assuming a simplified fixed exit at 100m/s, so it sounds like your math is good :)

Great. Thanks for your help :D
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#105 - 2013-11-21 07:58:54 UTC
Scheduled plan: go pick the Golem, buy a bastion module, jump to mission system, perform a test mission. ETTC: 75 minutes

What really happened: 75 minutes later, I barely had docked at my mission system and had to log off. Today i'll test the bastion module.

Thank you for wasting my time, CCP Masterplan, I really needed a way to spend even more time doing nothing in this game. Ugh

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#106 - 2013-11-21 14:10:58 UTC  |  Edited by: GeeShizzle MacCloud
xttz wrote:
Warping with any capital now feels like being in TIDI. The worst part is that it's not even clear when the warp will end... you see the remaining distance counting down, and just as you think it will end, it drops even smaller:

15km...
10km...
6km...
3000m...
2100m...
1400m..
850m...

Acceleration isn't so big a deal, but when you're landing on grid it can easily take 15-20 seconds before the ship is controllable again, longer than most other ships now spend in warp.

Unless you plan to add a better visual indication of when a warp will end, I think the best solution is a lower cap on deceleration. We currently have a maximum value of 2, I think it would be fairer if instead the minimum value was 1 and the maximum upped slightly to 2.5 or even 3. This would preserve the difference between ship classes without appearing on grid too fast or too slowly.


Just a quick suggestion to clear confusion of warp exit, surely we can get the 'distance to warp bubble collapse' changed to 'time to warp bubble collapse' along with a countdown.

That way there will be less of an annoying 'are we there yet?' syndrome that large ship / capital pilots suffer from. Shouldn't it be easy to convert the distance measurement to time client side?
Morrrr
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2013-11-22 06:50:12 UTC


Accelerating an object to a speed of even 1 AU/s is impossible, nothing can be accelerated to the speed of light which is only 0,002 AU/s.

What an hypothetical warp drive constructed with exotic matter/anti-matter would do is not accelerate an object according to Newton's physics laws, but rather warp or bend the spacetime around it according to the principles in Einstein's field equations.[/quote]



FINALLY, Someone explains what I have been stating for the last couple days!


NEWTON LAW #2, Does not apply in non standard space/time.

THANKS!
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#108 - 2013-11-22 15:08:50 UTC
Quote:
Morrrr wrote:


Accelerating an object to a speed of even 1 AU/s is impossible, nothing can be accelerated to the speed of light which is only 0,002 AU/s.

What an hypothetical warp drive constructed with exotic matter/anti-matter would do is not accelerate an object according to Newton's physics laws, but rather warp or bend the spacetime around it according to the principles in Einstein's field equations.




FINALLY, Someone explains what I have been stating for the last couple days!


NEWTON LAW #2, Does not apply in non standard space/time.

THANKS!


u guys should be playing kerbal then if u want a realistic physics engine to go toe to toe with.
Nankeen Heron
Jim's Mowing
#109 - 2013-11-22 22:45:40 UTC
(Reposted from Rubicon feedback thread)

Suggestion: Can we have a second needle (red, perhaps) for % warp speed on the HUD?

Having the speedo pegged at 100% once warp is engaged is kind of pointless, and mousing over to read the numbers isn't ideal.

Cheers!
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#110 - 2013-11-22 23:11:34 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
^^^ That's a reasonable suggestion. Noted down!

ihcn wrote:
Would it be possible to get this warp chart with more sig figs? Just one decimal place would really really help make sure i've got my formula right, especially for the small ships.

Also: I'm finding that my computed warp times are off by a constant factor (ie the error isn't affected by warp distance). It seems to be related somewhat to the fact that ships don't seem to come out of warp at 1/ms as the formula would imply. It seems like almost all of the error goes away if I account for all ships exiting warp at 100 m/s. Am I on the right track, is there some part of the formula that wasn't mentioned in the dev blog, or do I need to recheck my formulas?

For reference i'm the guy who made this http://eve-utils.net/maps/shortest_path/, and I'm currently updating the formulas

You're mostly correct, yes. The exact time depends on the max (sub-warp) speed of the ship. Obviously this varies a lot even within a single ship class, and even more so depending on fittings. Ships will exit warp mode when their warping speed drops below 50% of sub-warp max speed, or 100m/s, whichever is the lower.
My chart is written assuming a simplified fixed exit at 100m/s, so it sounds like your math is good :)


CCP Masterplan.......

Responding to the easy posts and ignoring the ones you don't like.

Awesome stuff, and hardly surprising.