These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

ISIS my new favorite feature and certificates.

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2013-11-21 10:19:57 UTC
Batelle wrote:
...
The result is that like the previous certificate system, the vast majority of high-sp players will be running around with low levels of mastery because they know which skills they need already, and which they don't. The literal 'gold-standard' of 'train everything to 5, no matter how useless it is!' is still the norm....


OR maybe pilots without perfect core skills will look as bad as they are and feel bad because they are bad.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Cosmar
Syn Interstellar
#22 - 2013-11-21 10:43:12 UTC
I've got about 30m sp in subcaptial ships (and none of the really fancy ones) and everything is mastery II pretty much. Gallente drone boat with t2 sentries and drone interface V ? Mastery two. Random ship i've never flown before ? Mastery two. Velator ? Mastery two.

And i think if i made a new character tomorrow i'd probably be master 2 on it's ships within a few weeks at most.
I don't mind it per se but it's not very good gauge of a character's focus or power.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#23 - 2013-11-21 10:45:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Roime
Very impressed with the ISIS, wish it were in game when I was a noob!

Still useful for older player too, and a pleasure to use.

EDIT: Also the new Mastery Tab just rock, I understand the skills are still WIP but I've found out a lot of useful stuff via it already.

Well done CCP!

.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#24 - 2013-11-21 13:56:46 UTC
one thing i find curious on isis is angel ships have a armour and shield icon but if you look at the ships they are all shield icons only.. and also that they are masters of projectiles apparently rather than minmatar unless you plan on buffing angel's projectiles bonuses... maybe buffing damage or adding a tracking skill perhaps?

Also sansha are currently combat ships .. i hope they will be attack when you buff them the natural range of scorch encourages kiting and the tracking bonus is great for high speed ships..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Eaphod
Amalgamated Co-Operative Enterprise
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#25 - 2013-11-21 14:01:01 UTC
I have mastery 3 on some industrial ships I can't even fly, yet not even mastery 1 on the Tengu I have close to perfect skills on because of the gunnery skill associated with it. Not that it really matters to me as I know it's just a number, but I find it humorous at least.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#26 - 2013-11-21 14:04:43 UTC
the only thing now is .. since the isis/mastery tab is so pretty and visually good to look at and up-to date it makes the other tabs especially the description tab look outdated and spreadsheety/ugly .. the other tabs need updating to match

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Austin McLaren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2013-11-21 14:07:21 UTC
Batelle wrote:
ISIS = good

Certificates/ship masteries = slightly shinier version of the previously terrible and generally useless certificate system. Like the previous certificate system, the requirements were designed by someone who has never played eve or ever trained a skill.

-My gallente combat pilot has mastery5 for the Obelisk despite only having racial freighter to 3.
-My 60m SP tengu specialized pilot has zero mastery because of a lack of gunnery skills.
-Energy grid upgrades 5, which is pretty much a useless skill 99.5% of the time is required for mastery 5 of nearly every ship.
-Amarr drone specialization 5 is required for all drone ship level 5 masteries. No one in their right mind has ever used an amarr drone that required this skill, much less trained it to 5

The result is that like the previous certificate system, the vast majority of high-sp players will be running around with low levels of mastery because they know which skills they need already, and which they don't. The literal 'gold-standard' of 'train everything to 5, no matter how useless it is!' is still the norm.

So yeah, it'll do its intended function of telling you what skills to train for what ship, but like before it does an absolutely miserable job of actually measuring your skills for any ship.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#28 - 2013-11-21 14:08:32 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
one thing i find curious on isis is angel ships have a armour and shield icon but if you look at the ships they are all shield icons only.. and also that they are masters of projectiles apparently rather than minmatar unless you plan on buffing angel's projectiles bonuses... maybe buffing damage or adding a tracking skill perhaps?

Also sansha are currently combat ships .. i hope they will be attack when you buff them the natural range of scorch encourages kiting and the tracking bonus is great for high speed ships..


Good point on the Angel Cartel icons, will have a look.
Lair Osen
#29 - 2013-11-21 14:21:36 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
one thing i find curious on isis is angel ships have a armour and shield icon but if you look at the ships they are all shield icons only.. and also that they are masters of projectiles apparently rather than minmatar unless you plan on buffing angel's projectiles bonuses... maybe buffing damage or adding a tracking skill perhaps?

Also sansha are currently combat ships .. i hope they will be attack when you buff them the natural range of scorch encourages kiting and the tracking bonus is great for high speed ships..


Good point on the Angel Cartel icons, will have a look.


While you do that can you please fix the ISIS Sleipnir picture, currently it still shows the cyclone hull.
T1nyMan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-11-21 14:25:35 UTC  |  Edited by: T1nyMan
Eaphod wrote:
I have mastery 3 on some industrial ships I can't even fly, yet not even mastery 1 on the Tengu I have close to perfect skills on because of the gunnery skill associated with it. Not that it really matters to me as I know it's just a number, but I find it humorous at least.


Didn't you read the latest balancing thread, they are nerfing the Tengu into a heavy tackle sniper remote hull repairing salvage hacking ship.. Keep up man... Keep up..

Note: I've bought ten, I'm expecting prices to skyrocket.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#31 - 2013-11-21 14:26:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
and the nighthawk still shows the ferox hull until you click on it then its the drake and you still haven't added drone cert to phantasm

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#32 - 2013-11-21 14:29:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Batelle wrote:
ISIS = good

Certificates/ship masteries = slightly shinier version of the previously terrible and generally useless certificate system. Like the previous certificate system, the requirements were designed by someone who has never played eve or ever trained a skill.

-My gallente combat pilot has mastery5 for the Obelisk despite only having racial freighter to 3.
-My 60m SP tengu specialized pilot has zero mastery because of a lack of gunnery skills.
-Energy grid upgrades 5, which is pretty much a useless skill 99.5% of the time is required for mastery 5 of nearly every ship.
-Amarr drone specialization 5 is required for all drone ship level 5 masteries. No one in their right mind has ever used an amarr drone that required this skill, much less trained it to 5

The result is that like the previous certificate system, the vast majority of high-sp players will be running around with low levels of mastery because they know which skills they need already, and which they don't. The literal 'gold-standard' of 'train everything to 5, no matter how useless it is!' is still the norm.

So yeah, it'll do its intended function of telling you what skills to train for what ship, but like before it does an absolutely miserable job of actually measuring your skills for any ship.


Mastery 5 means you have maxed everything that is tied to a ship. It's not for the faint of heart as it requires lots of skills at 5. What you want to look at are Masteries 1-4 Blink


well, its not as bad as I made it sound. Many of the even level 5 masteries are very reasonable, and it sounds like many things are being addressed. The Lachesis with its 3-7-5 slot layout and traditional use with shield roaming gangs made me gag though, its one of the more glaring examples.

I also acknowledge that its about design philosophy rather than you not being knowledgeable about eve. I made a similar post after the certificate dev blog and your response was pretty much the same. Just please continue to be responsive to players on this one, and I still strongly feel that the basic skills for buffer shield tanking with invulns should be added to select gallente ships.

ISIS is pretty awesome though, I think on the whole this is a fantastic new feature and a step in the right direction. I recall being a rookie in 2005 and just going through every item i could find in the market for hours just to learn about stuff. This beats the hell out of that by putting ships front and center.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#33 - 2013-11-21 14:56:51 UTC
What exactly does that thing do other than confuse new players the same way the old certs did? There's no leveling system in EvE so stop trying to add one.

When you get "mastery" to 5 for a ship does it make a dinging sound with lots of swirly stars and glitter around your ship to show you maxed it out?...if not it should it'll be a big hit with the morons who don't like to read guides.
Eaphod
Amalgamated Co-Operative Enterprise
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#34 - 2013-11-21 14:59:31 UTC
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
When you get "mastery" to 5 for a ship does it make a dinging sound with lots of swirly stars and glitter around your ship to show you maxed it out?


Do I have your permission to post this in the Features & Ideas section? This sounds FAABULOUUUUUS!
CCP RubberBAND
CCP Engineering Corp
#35 - 2013-11-21 15:17:15 UTC
Lair Osen wrote:


While you do that can you please fix the ISIS Sleipnir picture, currently it still shows the cyclone hull.


Nothing to do with the ISIS. The updated hulls for certain ships seem to have caused an issue but clearing the cache fixes it.

Feel free to poke me on: Twitter
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#36 - 2013-11-21 16:06:45 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Ytterbium
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
What exactly does that thing do other than confuse new players the same way the old certs did? There's no leveling system in EvE so stop trying to add one.

When you get "mastery" to 5 for a ship does it make a dinging sound with lots of swirly stars and glitter around your ship to show you maxed it out?...if not it should it'll be a big hit with the morons who don't like to read guides.


Because obviously, there is nothing wrong by going to third party websites and guides to figure out basic information for EVE gameplay right? Right? P

Yes, YES, IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE NOW! The main difficulty in EVE should come from figuring how to interact with its UI, not the actual game play behind it. Let's just get rid of it all entirely and let's play in MS-DOS with slash commands like in the good ol' days!

> You enter Jita in your ship
/warp Jita 4-4
> INCORRECT CMD "warp"
/warpto Jita 4-4
> UNKWN CMD PARAMETER "Jita 4-4"
> You see a catalyst approaching
/warp to Jita IV - 4
> SPECIFY CMD PARAMETER /WARPTO SYSTEM - MOON - STATION
> You see a catalyst flashing RED
/warp to JIRA IV - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant
> WARP IN PROGRESS.
> Your ship is in structure due to Catalyst superb hit, wrecking ur face for [ZOMGXXLBBQDMG]
> WARP IN PROGRESS..
> You cannot warp away as you are warp scrambled
> Your ship explodes.


Warning: this post may contain traces of sarcasm, troll and nuts. We cannot be held responsible for hair loss, intense flaming, rage, mouth drool or other fluids being expelled out of the reader body in a totally uncontrolled fashion. Please use with caution.

Anyway, back to work.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#37 - 2013-11-21 16:55:45 UTC
Your liberal use of sarcasm in so many of your forum posts makes your Frenchman status even Frenchier...

...And it is awesome.

The Drake is a Lie
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#38 - 2013-11-21 17:06:53 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
What exactly does that thing do other than confuse new players the same way the old certs did? There's no leveling system in EvE so stop trying to add one.

When you get "mastery" to 5 for a ship does it make a dinging sound with lots of swirly stars and glitter around your ship to show you maxed it out?...if not it should it'll be a big hit with the morons who don't like to read guides.


Because obviously, there is nothing wrong by going to third party websites and guides to figure out basic information for EVE gameplay right? Right? P

Yes, YES, IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE NOW! The main difficulty in EVE should come from figuring how to interact with its UI, not the actual game play behind it. Let's just get rid of it all entirely and let's play in MS-DOS with slash commands like in the good ol' days!

> You enter Jita in your ship
/warp Jita 4-4
> INCORRECT CMD "warp"
/warpto Jita 4-4
> UNKWN CMD PARAMETER "Jita 4-4"
> You see a catalyst approaching
/warp to Jita IV - 4
> SPECIFY CMD PARAMETER /WARPTO SYSTEM - MOON - STATION
> You see a catalyst flashing RED
/warp to JIRA IV - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant
> WARP IN PROGRESS.
> Your ship is in structure due to Catalyst superb hit, wrecking ur face for [ZOMGXXLBBQDMG]
> WARP IN PROGRESS..
> You cannot warp away as you are warp scrambled
> Your ship explodes.


Warning: this post may contain traces of sarcasm, troll and nuts. We cannot be held responsible for hair loss, intense flaming, rage, mouth drool or other fluids being expelled out of the reader body in a totally uncontrolled fashion. Please use with caution.

Anyway, back to work.


Well, I won't use any traces of anything but facts and what I said has nothing to do with the ship control UI. That information is covered in the tutorial and EvE isn't a text based MUD.

Evelopedia is an official source of information and is universally in ruin and the worst place you could look for information. EveUni's guides are BY FAR more accurate and updated. Those guides are 3rd party. Just bite the bullet and change that little button at the top of your website to say "UniGuides" and link it to their site so new players get correct information if that is your true goal.

Your Isis thing and certificates are also wrong because there is no set way to "skill up" for mastery in certain ships. It's a fancy UI to show off ships in a tree system that copies other games leveling systems. Period.

Now go get your shinebox cupcake and polish the turds you created rather than making excuses why the new turds stink just as bad as the old abandoned ones.





...and no, I don't want to update the wrong-o-pedia for free. I prefer to get paid for my work.
Kivena
EVE University
Ivy League
#39 - 2013-11-21 17:22:09 UTC
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
EveUni's guides are BY FAR more accurate and updated. Those guides are 3rd party. Just bite the bullet and change that little button at the top of your website to say "UniGuides" and link it to their site so new players get correct information if that is your true goal.

[...]

...and no, I don't want to update the wrong-o-pedia for free. I prefer to get paid for my work.

You should help keep our right-o-pedia updated.Big smile Oh wait, that's unpaid too. Never mind then.

Director of Communications EVE University

Follow me on Twitter: @eveKivena
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#40 - 2013-11-21 17:43:04 UTC
Kivena wrote:
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
EveUni's guides are BY FAR more accurate and updated. Those guides are 3rd party. Just bite the bullet and change that little button at the top of your website to say "UniGuides" and link it to their site so new players get correct information if that is your true goal.

[...]

...and no, I don't want to update the wrong-o-pedia for free. I prefer to get paid for my work.

You should help keep our right-o-pedia updated.Big smile Oh wait, that's unpaid too. Never mind then.


In your case I'll take isk for the job and I promise the Marauder page will look better than THIS. But really who needs lots of words? Imbeciles don't like lots of words so we should encourage CCP to make more dummy tools with bad information for them to follow so they get the impression they are masters of ships. (at least until they find out the core skills were far more important and some of the stuff they trained to 5 is utterly useless).
Previous page123Next page