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PVP's Reliance on Voice Comms - Detrimental?
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Laserak
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-11-20 14:33:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Laserak
Hang on a second guys, I'm typing out what to do as this cyno goes up on the edge of our titan pos and PL is jumping in..
Plug in Baby
Family Tipes
#22 - 2013-11-20 14:34:36 UTC
Inquisitor Ageri wrote:
But I flew in this fleet last night despite that, and actually found that even with all of our other members having active voice comms, the coherence of the fleet during combat was still pretty diabolical.


Wait, what?

Quote:
24th Imperial Crusade


..aaah.

This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main.
Sevendeadly Sins
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-11-20 14:40:44 UTC
The corp I'm in needs everyone to have a mic, because saying that you've pointed the target is pretty damn faster than typing it.

http://www.zombo.com
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#24 - 2013-11-20 15:32:26 UTC
Inquisitor Ageri wrote:
Players without the ability to always use a mic seem to be stigmatized in a PVP fleet setting and considered not viable, but would an extra voice really add so much to fleet cohesion, or would proper use of linking-in-chat and broadcasts actually bring more concise information to the attention of the FC, without so much confusion?


Pretty much no. Having a mic is not synonymous with just adding your voice to the babble of crappy comms discipline. No amount of non-voice communication can make up for what is lost.

Broadcasts are pretty unnecessary beyond assisting with target calling and logi.
Voice comms are absolutely vital, even if you don't have a microphone.
If you don't have a microphone at all, that's pretty inexcusable short of it being broken, in which case go buy a new one.
Expecting people to read your fleet chat is unreasonable in EVERY situation.
If you can't be yelling into your microphone, learn to whisper? Its not about always having something to say, rather its about having the ability to communicate vital information when necessary.
The smaller the gang and the roam, and the more initiative needs to be taken by fleet members. instant communication is vital.

Lastly, most pvp corps, and even non pvp corps, develop part of their corp culture through casual voice comms. Being unable or unwilling to engage EVER in voice comms is not acceptable for most people, and for good reason.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#25 - 2013-11-20 17:00:51 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
ask their scouts "Hey, WTF's going on? Where are you? Where am I? Why are we here?"
My [expletive deleted] sides Lol

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2013-11-20 17:03:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Benny Ohu
how will i know if i am adequately proficient in hull tanking now

e: from this we will all learn not to use browser tabs while replying to forum threads

e: seriously i have no idea what happened here
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-11-20 17:51:06 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Normal pilots in a fleet don't need a mic, anyone who says they do is talking ****.

If you're not an FC/targetcaller/scout/etc, you probably shouldn't be talking anyway.


Unless you're in a small gang that requires members to fulfill dual roles.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-11-20 18:13:02 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
I love Fleet Comms.

I especially love it when the FC has a complete melt down and just rages at the fleet.

Long Live Fleet Comms


There's a song for that:

https://soundcloud.com/sindel-pellion/makalu-cries

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-11-20 18:13:45 UTC
Screaming bloody murder on voice coms always gets the attention quicker than typing in ALL CAPS.

Though it might be the awoxing kind of attention.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Prince Sanguine
#30 - 2013-11-20 18:19:15 UTC
It sounds like most people here have just had bad fcs. I've been in small and large fleets and noticed that most of the fails come from a bad fc, or players not paying attention. In a game where team work is essential to live/grow comms are a necessary. Some fcs let members get too "relaxed" or never chat chat but the good one's do constantly. People need to speak up or ask questions on comms if they have no idea what to do.

I understand some players are deaf or mute (being fast ft is pretty easy) but sometimes on the fly calls need to be made and that's where comms either help you win or lose.

Everytime you read this you are required to send 100 million isk directly to me.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#31 - 2013-11-20 18:31:28 UTC
Tul Breetai wrote:
We have several players who can't use mics, and that's fine, they just don't get to FC/scout. People will say no as a rule of thumb for all kinds of reasons, but it's really just laziness.
I would disagree. For most it would be a matter of trust. When someone says they can’t get on voice my first thought is they are afraid someone will recognize their voice and thus be revealed as a SPY.
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
#32 - 2013-11-20 18:39:10 UTC
In my experience well organized Comms leads to a much better fleet regardless of the outcome. Can't really say much for larger fleets though as I usually fly in 10-15 man fleets, but I'd wager that the benefits are similar.

wumbo
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#33 - 2013-11-20 18:41:09 UTC
chatting is an important part of shooting structures

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#34 - 2013-11-20 20:43:48 UTC
Good gamers have comms, period.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2013-11-20 20:52:52 UTC
Fleet chat channel is for shite, voice comms are disciplined.
Anyone not on voice comms is on the batphone to our enemies and gets kicked.
Voice comms are free in structure bashes and camps at the FCs call.
Easy.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#36 - 2013-11-20 21:32:49 UTC
Everyone knows the best way to have fleet coms is everyone talking over each other, while somones mic is being keyed up by their incredibly loud stereo, while someone else is trying to be a fleet DJ, while 3 other people are talking about missioning, 4 drunk people are repeatedly belching into the mic, 32 people are repeatedly screaming that their dead, 2 people are talking about their dinner, and the FCs just log off.



Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#37 - 2013-11-20 23:00:55 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Everyone knows the best way to have fleet coms is everyone talking over each other, while somones mic is being keyed up by their incredibly loud stereo, while someone else is trying to be a fleet DJ, while 3 other people are talking about missioning, 4 drunk people are repeatedly belching into the mic, 32 people are repeatedly screaming that their dead, 2 people are talking about their dinner, and the FCs just log off.

I was there.
Reiisha
#38 - 2013-11-20 23:06:07 UTC
Inquisitor Ageri wrote:
This thread came up a couple days ago and was brought to my mind again last night after flying for a little while in a FW PVP fleet. I have been kicked from fleets before for not having a microphone set up, due to the fact that because of my living circumstances I cannot always be talking down a mic.

But I flew in this fleet last night despite that, and actually found that even with all of our other members having active voice comms, the coherence of the fleet during combat was still pretty diabolical. For example, at one point we had the FC screaming at us to "kill the Thorax" whilst half of us were in one system, and half of us were in another, and people's voices were tripping over each other for priority, my ears were getting blown up from mic feedback, and the FC generally had a noisy garbled mic.

Would it have been such a backwards step to instead have used the broadcast system for fleet movement and cohesion, or to simply link the system? The broadcast system is there, it is good, but no-one I ever come across seems to know how to set it up properly and use it.

Players without the ability to always use a mic seem to be stigmatized in a PVP fleet setting and considered not viable, but would an extra voice really add so much to fleet cohesion, or would proper use of linking-in-chat and broadcasts actually bring more concise information to the attention of the FC, without so much confusion?


When the FC speaks, everyone else shuts up. Everyone follows the FC, whatever order he gives. These are very, very basic rules which seem to have been violated in your fleet.

Broadcast is used in unison with voicecomms, not as a replacement.


Stuff like this goes for every single team game out there, not just EVE. From 2 player stuff to 1000-man EVE fights, voicecomms are by far the most efficient way of handling information, commands and structure, provided you have a halfway decent FC and a fleet of people who know when to listen.

Voicecomms don't cause chaos, what you experienced was just the consequence of what seems to be a bad fleet. They're a tool, and like any tool it needs some knowledge and skill to use it properly.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
Brylan Grey
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-11-20 23:44:48 UTC
In fleets, I leave voice specifically for information that needs to be immediately called. All idle chat among members goes elsewhere.

FC, scouts, etc use voice and the rest listen.

That does not mean forget broadcasts.

A good fleet will leave voice for vital information, broadcast orders when applicable via the nice broadcast feature, and also will have a member repeate Orders in fleet chat to ensure no one can say they missed that.

Is voice required? No. Not at all. But does it help? It can. Like any tool, it can make a job much easier but if used wrong can be a nightmare. Thus, using a hammer to put nails in a wall is great, but using a shovel to do it creates a mess.
Xavier Higdon
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-11-21 02:35:58 UTC
You want a bad FC? Go join Recursive Ascension. It went something like this: "Everyone ******* get in the ******* fleet ****. I will ******* **** kick **** you if you don't." And then an hour later: "Alright we'll undock after I go to the store." Three hours later the fleet would be disbanded. And the guy wondered why no one would show up for the next fleet...
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