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Astero
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Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#21 - 2013-11-20 10:45:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Skeln Thargensen
Rammix wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
turn it off after you enter warp. if you land on a gate with smartbombs going off you've probably had it anyway. with the cloak off you can run your hardener(s).

It's not the best way. Better to warp to 20-30km cloaked and circle around looking for safe approach.


where are you traveling? if low sec then it's fine to warp to 0 on gates uncloaked. the only problem is smartbombs on outgates.

I made a trip around low sec yesterday in the astero and the cool down typically runs out by the time you've changed session if you switch it off the moment you enter warp in the previous system.

you might get caught out on very short gate to gate warps but given how fast its align time is you'll probably get away with it. if there's a camper then just wait a little to be safe.

forums.  serious business.
Grim Hood
Doomheim
#22 - 2013-11-20 13:04:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Grim Hood
If you want to fly with no cloak delay get a bomber or force recon or T3. The bomber is a lot cheaper than the Astero and the force recon is the same price. Or just do what was mentioned above.

On a side note, I have been fitting my Astero for pvp. It's basically like a tristan and a pilgrim had a baby. MWD, drones, tracking disruptor, long point, CovOps cloak. I have only shot at some corp mates to test it out, I have yet to go roaming, but based on my testing it's a pretty awesome ship for lowsec pvp.

Expensive? Yes.
Fun? Hell yes.

In a few months when the price has dropped I will be buying a whole bunch of these for some shenanigans in FW space.

A Good Death Is It's Own Reward
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-11-20 13:08:54 UTC
Rammix wrote:
Recon and BR are cruiser-sized, have smaller warp speed


Astero: 5 AU/s warpspeed
Blockade Runner: 6 AU/s warpspeed

Today I learned that for pubbies, 6 is smaller than 5.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#24 - 2013-11-20 13:54:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Why are you even using the cloak that much? You only need to turn it on when you have others on grid. If there is no one on grid there is almost no point to hitting the cloak. So if you worried about the delay then just don't use the cloak until you need to use it. Problem solved. Why are you even cloaking when there is no one there to see you?

In the infinitely unlikely event that you would hit two gate camps one after another, then you just need to wait a little while. Or let your cloak off whilst warping so the timer is already up once you have jumped through.

On a side note, I think there should be some indication of when you can use it again. Like having it highlighted red until it is usable.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#25 - 2013-11-20 14:00:56 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
On a side note, I think there should be some indication of when you can use it again. Like having it highlighted red until it is usable.


yeah, having some form of cool down timer indicator for modules would be nice, especially on the MJD.

forums.  serious business.
Rammix
TheMurk
#26 - 2013-11-20 14:12:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Rammix
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
Rammix wrote:
Recon and BR are cruiser-sized, have smaller warp speed


Astero: 5 AU/s warpspeed
Blockade Runner: 6 AU/s warpspeed

Today I learned that for pubbies, 6 is smaller than 5.

Warp speed is not only the "warp speed" stat. It's also overall agility (i.e. alignment, acceleration, warp acceleration, warp deceleration, after-warp deceleration, new warp).

Arduemont wrote:
Why are you even using the cloak that much? You only need to turn it on when you have others on grid. If there is no one on grid there is almost no point to hitting the cloak. So if you worried about the delay then just don't use the cloak until you need to use it. Problem solved. Why are you even cloaking when there is no one there to see you?

In the infinitely unlikely event that you would hit two gate camps one after another, then you just need to wait a little while. Or let your cloak off whilst warping so the timer is already up once you have jumped through.

On a side note, I think there should be some indication of when you can use it again. Like having it highlighted red until it is usable.

Staying cloaked - is a principle. Ships intended for covert operations should keep invisible in d-scan for as long as possible.


What tears are you people talking about? Seems you imagine tears everywhere where people don't agree with you. That's ridiculous (lame).
I was speaking about inadequate approach to balancing the astero. If they didn't want it to be OP in pvp they should've made it weaker. If they wanted to make it a nice exploration ship they should've given it the same cloaking as other covert frigates have.
Devs here were like trying to shoot two birds at a time, and screwed up.

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Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-11-20 14:29:56 UTC
Rammix wrote:
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
Rammix wrote:
Recon and BR are cruiser-sized, have smaller warp speed


Astero: 5 AU/s warpspeed
Blockade Runner: 6 AU/s warpspeed

Today I learned that for pubbies, 6 is smaller than 5.

Warp speed is not only the "warp speed" stat. It's also overall agility (i.e. alignment, acceleration, warp acceleration, warp deceleration, after-warp deceleration, new warp).


Warp acceleration and deceleration is higher on a BR, since it has a greater warp speed, let's take a look at the time-to warp:
(All Lvl5 character used for comparison, no fits)

Astero: 2.62s align time
BR: 5.15s - 5.74s align time

Combined with http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65418/1/numbers_table.png we can conclude:

<1AU : Astero arrives first
<20AU: Arrival within same tick
>20AU: BR arrives first

Tell me again how the Astero has a higher warp speed than a BR.
Rammix
TheMurk
#28 - 2013-11-20 14:44:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Rammix
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
Rammix wrote:
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
Rammix wrote:
Recon and BR are cruiser-sized, have smaller warp speed


Astero: 5 AU/s warpspeed
Blockade Runner: 6 AU/s warpspeed

Today I learned that for pubbies, 6 is smaller than 5.

Warp speed is not only the "warp speed" stat. It's also overall agility (i.e. alignment, acceleration, warp acceleration, warp deceleration, after-warp deceleration, new warp).


Warp acceleration and deceleration is higher on a BR, since it has a greater warp speed, let's take a look at the time-to warp:
(All Lvl5 character used for comparison, no fits)

Astero: 2.62s align time
BR: 5.15s - 5.74s align time

Combined with http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65418/1/numbers_table.png we can conclude:

<1AU : Astero arrives first
<20AU: Arrival within same tick
>20AU: BR arrives first

Tell me again how the Astero has a higher warp speed than a BR.

Ok, you're right.
But BR is not a pvp ship by its characteristics, and astero is a pvp ship (it has everything for that). So in a BR some recloak delays with waiting in gate cloak mean almost nothing.

p.s. Btw you just proved my words - astero is faster in short range, so it needs shorter recloaking delay.

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-11-20 17:56:21 UTC
silly discussion

if the Astero had a 5s cloak delay, it would pretty much be objectively superior to cov ops ships for most uses.

which would make no sense, since it takes almost no skillpoints to sit in an astero.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#30 - 2013-11-20 17:58:44 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
The Astero is NOT a covert ops ships and therefore does NOT have the covert ops cloaking delay reduction.

Be ******* happy that you even get to use the covert ops cloak on a non covert ops or Recon or BR..because they could have just as easily made it so that they can only use a standard cloak..and I couldn't image the crocodile tears youd be pouring in my GD if that was the case.


Then it would just be another pre-nerfed new ship. Maybe it would be lucky to get rebalanced 5 years down the line like EAFs. I don't have to be happy about anything.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Jarod Garamonde
Jolly Codgers
Get Off My Lawn
#31 - 2013-11-20 19:18:18 UTC
Please don't nerf the Astero until I'm done selling enough of them to pay for at least a year of game time's worth of PLEX.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Aracimia Wolfe
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2013-11-20 21:43:54 UTC
ITT: People cry about not being able to get lowered risk pvp and other people face palm

Same old same old

Kill it with Fire!

Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-11-20 21:48:25 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
silly discussion

if the Astero had a 5s cloak delay, it would pretty much be objectively superior to cov ops ships for most uses.

which would make no sense, since it takes almost no skillpoints to sit in an astero.

cov ops ships have better scanning bonuses that the new soe ships and both have the same virus bonus so unless you are intentionally going into combat then the astero will never be better than the cov ops ships. cov ops have a 8 sec iirc reactivation timer and sb have a 15 sec one. giving the astero a comparitive timer would be balanced...giving it the same timer as other non cloaky ships is not balanced. (a cloaky ship is any ship that can fit a cov cloak for those of you who dont know/are too thick to engage your brains)
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-11-20 22:13:56 UTC
Omega Flames wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
silly discussion

if the Astero had a 5s cloak delay, it would pretty much be objectively superior to cov ops ships for most uses.

which would make no sense, since it takes almost no skillpoints to sit in an astero.

cov ops ships have better scanning bonuses that the new soe ships and both have the same virus bonus so unless you are intentionally going into combat then the astero will never be better than the cov ops ships. cov ops have a 8 sec iirc reactivation timer and sb have a 15 sec one. giving the astero a comparitive timer would be balanced...giving it the same timer as other non cloaky ships is not balanced. (a cloaky ship is any ship that can fit a cov cloak for those of you who dont know/are too thick to engage your brains)


this is insane.

astero:
pros:
more agile than cov ops (faster align time)
has much better fitting stats (32 powergrid!!! compare to 17 on a buzzard)
has 4/4 slot layout...very desireable. only ship that comes close is the Helios at 5/3
offers the 37.5% scanning bonus without having to take a racial frigate skill to V
the same +10 virus strength bonus as a Cov Ops

cons:
lower scanning bonus. but with decent scanning skills, this becomes fairly irrelevant...
big recloak timer delay
slower warp speed

i think its balanced and highly useful.

its outperforming my Buzzard handidly at the task of exploration, mostly because it has two additional lowslots, so i can fit double nano + double WCS....and i can easily fit a MWD to it with its massive 32 powergrid, something i struggled to do on the buzzard.

Overall i think the Astero fills its purpose as outclassing all T1 exploration vessels, while being outclassed by T2 exploration vessels if you have enough skillpoints.

so basically

T2 Cov Ops (with good or very good skills) > Astero > T1 Frigate

Which is exactly how it should be.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#35 - 2013-11-20 22:16:37 UTC
The Astero is the only T1 frigate that gets 5 drones. None of the existing covert cloaky ships get a bonus to EHP (the Astero gets 4% armour resistance per level).

It's an awesome little frigate. To get over the 30s reactivation delay, just decloak as you are in warp towards the gate. The important part of covops cloakiness in this case is being able to get into warp while cloaked, and being able to arrive on grid in an exploration site still cloaked.

Astero is OP for FW Novice Sites, BTW.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Janna Sway
Ember Inc.
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#36 - 2013-11-20 22:21:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Janna Sway
Rammix wrote:
It has 30 second cloak reactivation delay.
It's way too long and doesn't let to travel normally: it takes significantly less time to pass through a system, than for the timer to run out. If you turn on the cloak when warping off to the next gate, then, after you reach it and jump through, you will be unable to cloak for 10 or sometimes even 20 seconds.


What would be the use of T2 CovOps and Recon ships if these SOE "Faction" ships would make you already restlessly happy and give you all a "T2" ship is already offering you?
Be realistic...
Rammix
TheMurk
#37 - 2013-11-20 22:31:31 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
racial frigate skill to V

[sarcasm]
Learning a frig skill to V takes so much time, yeah. It's a very strong argument for a discussion.
[/sarcasm]
Pinky Hops wrote:
Overall i think the Astero fills its purpose as outclassing all T1 exploration vessels, while being outclassed by T2 exploration vessels if you have enough skillpoints.

so basically

T2 Cov Ops (with good or very good skills) > Astero > T1 Frigate

Which is exactly how it should be.

Astero is made so that it's not only an exploration ship. It's also a relatively good pvp vessel.
And astero is the only covert pvp-capable frigate with small-sized weapons.
Pinky Hops wrote:
silly discussion

if the Astero had a 5s cloak delay, it would pretty much be objectively superior to cov ops ships for most uses.

which would make no sense, since it takes almost no skillpoints to sit in an astero.

I never said to reduce from 30 sec to 5 sec. 12 seconds would be fine, 18 - maximum.

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Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
#38 - 2013-11-20 22:35:26 UTC
It's balanced for the skill point investment tbh. Haven't flown one yet so can't really comment on the status of the ship itself.

wumbo
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-11-20 22:38:20 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
The Astero is the only T1 frigate that gets 5 drones...

Tristan?
Rammix
TheMurk
#40 - 2013-11-20 22:40:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Rammix
Janna Sway wrote:
What would be the use of T2 CovOps and Recon ships if these SOE "Faction" ships would make you already restlessly happy and give you all a "T2" ship is already offering you?
Be realistic...

As I've said above, they should've made 2 ships.
Anyway, 30 second delay is totally inadequate for a cloaky frigate.

edit: by "2 ships" I obviously mean "2 frigates".

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread