Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Thisis what I suspected myself which is why I asked him to tell us how he was fit.

At the end of the day Katan seems to think that he shouldnt have to make any adjustments to his fit to take advantage of the new launcher mechanic. I believe he is being lazy and should feel bad for complaining before trying every which way possible to try and overcome the dual rep Incurses. Alas, I believe he will wait for someone else to come up with a fit for him. But it won't be me.

Please read all of my my posts before judging.

I'm very late to the game here and I don't want to go through the whole thread so... are there any CCP posts addressing how this reload time completely negates the advantage launchers have in being able to use multiple damage types? There are reasons launchers have access to all damage types. It's one of the things that keep them in line with other weapon systems. Destroying that because you have trouble balancing a module doesn't seem like a good option to me.

It's a long time since I've done solo lowsec work in a Caracal, but when I did do it after Quantum Rise I used a Caracal with dual webs. Fitting no webs is just mental - how do you expect to keep tackle on things? Sorry, but only HML Caracals don't fit webs - or have reliable webbing gangmates, which amounts to the same thing. Sort your fits out.

Your Incursus fit was "Incursus: standard AB fit with DC, ENAM, 2 small repps, 2 auxiliary nano pumps, max skills, no other implants, all T2, except for rigs".

I can't reproduce your 205 DPS tank. With Pseudo DC, EANM, dual SAR and dual ANP rigs, I show 155 DPS overloaded explosive tank. Ah wait, I can use a CPU rig to upgrade from Pseudo DC to T2, that makes it 158 DPS tanked and death in 18 s.

Are you using omni damage tank, or do you have an explosive rig in there? It doesn't matter though. With a 205 DPS tank, the Incursus dies in 23 s instead.

You're also wrong in the case of two Incursusii, and obviously so. They die in 18 s each, which means that the Caracal can kill both before reload. The two Incurses deal 204 DPS each, for 408 DPS, against a bog-standard triple-CDFE, LSE, Invuln Caracal of 28k EHP against Void. Even if neither die, they'll take 69 s to kill the Caracal.

To win, the Incursuses need to kite a bit outside web range and hope they can trick the Caracal into wasting missiles. But of course, if the Incursi ever want to kill it, they have to enter web range...

I'm going to add to Gypsio's wisdom and tell you about short range kiting. If you have one of the Incursii webbed and scammed you can keep him at about 8km range from you. At this range you can pound the testicles off him whilst only having to deal with getting punched in the face by the second Incurses. Unless of course they are using rails. Which means their damage is much lower.

Katan, you need to think more about your fits and your tactics. You can't have a ship that can just pwn all.

Amusingly, a quick look at the number suggest that the Caracal has a good chance of killing three Incursuses!

Assume 28k EHP Caracal and 158 DPS tank, 204 DPS Incursuses.
Assume that the Caracal uses a full load of missiles to kill the first two, then reloads.

In the first 18 s it was taking 612 DPS, then 408 DPS in the next 18 s. After that it reloads for 40 s during which it receives 204 DPS. After finishing reload, it has taken 612*18 + 408* 18 + 40*204 damage, 26520 damage, leaving it deep in hull. Then it starts shooting again, this time using overload, which means 14 s to kill the last Incursus - but during this time the Incursus would deal 14*204 = 2856 damage, enough to kill the Caracal first.

However, it's sufficiently clsoe that skills and piloting could tip the balance.

192dps is with the reload. If the incursus die before the reload, you can double this dps, and active tank suffer more from high dps than lower prolonged dps ; which increase a lot the chances of killing the said incursus before the reload.

Also, the AAR have 8 charges and take one minute to reload, which is more than the reload time of RLML.

Also, you presume ALLV for the incursus pilot but not for the caracal pilot ? ...

A weapon is designed to kill frigate don't mean it have to leave no chance to frigate and be their doom in some seconds. Designed to kill frigates in EVE mean you can reliably hit them, but there's counter to everything, and as your cruiser will be faster than most AB frigates and you have 4 times the tank ; you can't have everything. The frigate made choices to tank your missiles, and it seems that doesn't even pay out.

Missiles users are way too used to OP weapon systems.

I'm quite sure that Incursus won't be able to tank that long.

Lights have pretty damn good alpha, you would need absolutely perfect rep/cap control to keep it alive even half that time.

AAR reps 156 every 6 seconds for 48 seconds (holding 8 nanite paste), combined with a T2 repper, it will tank a caracal quite easily (with good skills). By the time the AAR is out of paste, the caracal is out of missiles.

Caracal with 28kehp is with scram+web. Full tank (one prop + one tackle) is 37kehp. That might be a bit less now with fitting change of RLML.