Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I'm going to briefly weigh-in on this with an aspect that hasn't been considered. AWOX'ing is killing EVE.

Corporations are reluctant to take on new players and new players are reluctant to join corporations or form their own and recruit. Thus you end up with a disproportionate number of players in NPC corporations simply for their own protection. It's fine if players want to go it alone, but forcing them down this path and effectively robbing them of valuable team-based training really limits their gaming experience.

So yes, I still agree with the original proposal. You AWOX, you get a visit from CONCORD.

What you're speaking to is more specifically high sec, pve focused corps, and more specifically the corps with little to no kills...
Taking out these type of corps does nothing for you, unless they're mining out your system.

However, if that's the case, why not wardec them?
Or, you could infiltrate, wardec, space log out your corp, and convince the target corp that the coast is clear, and they can resume mining/missioning... Build a fleet, take them out, drop fleet and join a attacking corp fleet.
You can literally take out an entire fleet of ships like this.


However, you'll never see goons drop an awoxer into another major alliance to get a kill or two...

Why? Because it doesn't help bring them down....

Like I've mentioned, they use other tactics that can bring and have brought down major alliances.


Besides, and awoxer is only as good as they're undocked and logged in...
Eventually they will DC or dock, thus allowing them to be kicked from corp.

So again, an awoxer is in no way bringing down a corp or alliance.
I have never seen this outcome...


As a matter of fact, all awoxing has done effectively is actually make it hard to infiltrate other corps.

Once a corp gets awoxed a couple times, that corp then learns what to do in order to vet this issue.

So now, not only have you not taken down a target corp, you have instead made it more difficult to take them down, because you can't get at them from the inside as easily as you could, had you just used a strong tactic from the start.

1.) Corp Tournaments (which are very tedious with the dueling mechanic)
2.) Web-to-warp Freighters and Orcas and stuff.
3.) Revenge against a corp thief that has been caught red handed.
4.) To AWOX
5.) To test a fit.
6.) To add an element of "trust" into corp recruitment.




Are you familiar with social justice?

There might not be a concord response, but if you post (ideally in Crimes and Punishment) that they are a Corp AWOXer, along with proof, then the next corp they apply to will probably deny them entry because they can't be trusted. You can additionally attack them back, bounty them, hiring mercs, by suicide gank them, by following their progress and letting their future corp mates know they can't be trusted.

Being effectively Blacklisted is a hell of a lot more brutal a punishment than losing a ship to concord!!!

Now, I realize there will be lots of Corps out there that don't bother to do a basic forum search, don't bother to get account API's to check out the "characters" founded on all toons, etc...

Here's a question:

Is it better to leave social justice and black listing to corps? Or should CCP simply prevent AWOXing?
I prefer the punishment come from the players!!

I was speaking more specifically on high sec activity..
Awoxing in low/null/wh is totally fine, cause everything is totally fine in low/null/wh space...

Now, awoxing doesn't serve a valuable purpose though.

You did however mention gang drops/cyno drops.
Well, this isn't exactly awoxing.... This is a different, more tactical use and is more in line with target calling/spying, which I mentioned as legitimate tactics...

These same tactics can be used in high sec, but with awoxing, much like outside of high sec, doesn't really have any value, without bringing in a fleet...

Essentially, the spy can call targets, drop fleet and join other fleet, then they can all warp in on him, and the enemy would be none the wiser....


Another thing I have thought of is that if you're wardecced, awoxing becomes legal on both sides.
Essentially meaning that all targets, even friendly, become legal targets.
So, with the cost of a war dec, you can awox.

I say you either make concord come if you attack corp member or you allow attacking alliance members. Don't see why you should be able to do the one but not the other.


PS: The whole you can shoot on own corpy actually reduces a lot the use of corps for social stickiness/involvement of new player. Why create a corp and take the risk of getting "ganked" if you can simply create a channel instead and every one sit in his own 1 man corp (no i am absolutely not talking about incursions as an example).

And you could keep doing that in low, null, and wormholes. In high sec it's more often used to ruin the experiences of new players than to create "intimacy".

Just my .02

Simple solution to the problem while keeping the corp tourny, freighter webbing etc mechanic in place...

We already have a "safety" button for doing criminal acts in HS... make a "corp on corp" setting. No need for concord... yada yada blah... Problem solved.

Trust is the cornerstone of any relationship.

so if we follow this logic and the logic that it has to be risky to invite people to corp why not get rid of the roles. This way any player accepted in the corp can steal from the corp hangar and empty the corp wallet at day 1. If you trust the people you invite where is the problem? and if you are against it well you better work on your background check to identify those people before accepting them into the corp. Why accept roles to restrict what people do in corp but allow anyone to blow up you freighter, orcas, shinins etc. This just doesn't make sens.

The main problem with the shooting at corpmate is that you have to earn the trust before you join the corp so you actually destroy more or less the purpose of a corp. To earn the trust you have to have some kind of communication and do stuff together, so whats the point of a corp then? Taking risk? At least with the roles you can accept someone and after time give him more and more roles. Which means that he can work on the trust while being in the corp, and if someone want to spend months of his time to get the trust an then steal well respect for the effort. Its not like he can create a new toon join a more or less random corp and start shooting orca/freigther in less than 3 days.

And the other stuff please, you can web freighter by using the duel mechanic and if you want to make a tournament every one goes yellow in a safe spot in highsec. Don't tell me you fear loosing a pvp ship.

This basically....

I don't have to trust a new guy when it comes to theft.
Hell, I don't even have to invite him to fleet, and they're often not involved in fleets, nor allowed into important chat/voice until he is trusted.


Again though, awoxing is rarely (if ever) used for any type of tactical advantage.

99.9% of the time it is used against soft, high sec targets. These targets are typically mining/missioning high sec corps.
I have never seen an awoxer attack a corp/alliance that is pvp centric.

They do it for trolling, isk, and KB padding.


I mean seriously, look at the situation.
You awox a SOV alliance... you become a permanent target, which they will even suicide gank in high sec.
Most of them don't even hear about it because it isn't really effecting anyone but the people that lost a ship, and they're often replaced minutes later.

You awox a WH corp/alliance... Well, you can't really get away without knowing where the WH is.
It's a little harder for them, because replacing the ship will take longer... Again, you will become a permanent target.

You awox a low sec corp/alliance... Again, you become a permanent target, and again, the lost ships and even pods have no effect on the corp.

You awox a large high sec corp/alliance in high sec... Basically the same outcome...

You awox a high sec pvp corp..... Same thing happens... Hell, you're actually going to make them more happy, cause they'll hunt you down till you quit the game.


Lastly, you awox a small pve corp with no holdings to anything.... You fly around trying to get more awoxes until you log and get kicked. Even if everyone leaves the corp, you're still not accomplishing anything.
Odds are they're simply starting a new corp with all the same people....
The corp they drop, had no pull on Eve and isn't effecting anyone, other than those few players.



My point is, awoxing is the most useless activity in Eve, and is practically always used against soft, small high sec corps that would be obvious easy targets.

If you support awoxing, you essentially support Eve easy mode...


As far as all the corp activities to have a little fun, well, we have this nifty little button that turns off safeties...
Perhaps you should be able to see in corp chat which players have their safety off, and they become a free target.
Also, as soon as you attack them, your safety is turned off as well.