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Mini PVP mission - Your Input Requested.
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Alara IonStorm
#41 - 2011-11-19 12:17:10 UTC
Lexmana wrote:

Fair point. But. It would change the way EVE is played by a lot of players and it would attract a new group of players to EVE. Now that is not necessary a bad thing if it wasn't for the fact that this new group of players will demand even more instant gratification and less consequences. EVE will gravitate towards the masses instead of providing a unique experience.

Yes it would, people who would enjoy this content would have fun. So what if they add instant gratification content that is suited towards Casuals. People conquering Null Sec, Pirating in Low Sec, Trading / Scamming and Roaming Wormholes will still have all that but if they can provide fun quicker to those who just want to log on and play all the power to them.
Large Collidable Object wrote:

As some kind of instanced arena-matching service for bored missionbears, I absolutely loathe the idea.

Why does this word keep coming up. The OP didn't prepose Instancing nor anyone else in the thread.

That is twice now =/

As for PvP for bored Mission Bears why not. It won't hurt what you do in game but will provide casual fun for everyone else.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#42 - 2011-11-19 12:19:06 UTC
MNagy wrote:
(PvP agents suggestion).


I already suggested that some weeks ago:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=297847#post297847


Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Alara IonStorm
#43 - 2011-11-19 12:22:09 UTC
Tannis Maya wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:


Join RvB

/thread


So leave your corp and move to the other side of the universe?

Did that, miss my old Corp. =(

Sader Rykane wrote:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1483760


Relevant.

Luv that thread.
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#44 - 2011-11-19 12:54:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Large Collidable Object wrote:

As some kind of instanced arena-matching service for bored missionbears, I absolutely loathe the idea.

Quote:
Why does this word keep coming up. The OP didn't prepose Instancing nor anyone else in the thread.

That is twice now =/




MNagy wrote:

The mission would give you a "keycard" for your jumpgate. (explained below).
[...]
Since the Jumpgate requires your keycard, nobody else can come and remote rep or anything.
[...]
When in this special pvp room that you can only get to with the gate, fleet bonus's do not work


He didn't say the word 'instance', yet that's pretty much the closest thing to an instanced pvp arena imaginable.

Quote:

As for PvP for bored Mission Bears why not. It won't hurt what you do in game but will provide casual fun for everyone else.


It shouldn't provide any payout - LP or isk or standing-wise - that's just too much special treatment. Which leaves the question why they don't hook up with some corpmates and drop some cans, organise corp tournaments etc...

This 'instant gratification' mentality is disgusting and against the spirit of the game.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#45 - 2011-11-19 13:19:02 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
(...)
This 'instant gratification' mentality is disgusting and against the spirit of the game.


What i find disgusting is paying for a game that demands me to be lifeless in order to invest in it several hours a day in order to earn any meaningful reward. Roll

PvP agents are not about instant reward. They are about getting fun with EVE in the only niche of time you have for it after a hard day's work and don't have that fun spoiled by a jobless punk with way too much time.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Shin Dari
Covert Brigade
#46 - 2011-11-19 13:26:01 UTC

More Casual gameplay?

Yes please.
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#47 - 2011-11-19 13:41:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Large Collidable Object wrote:
(...)
This 'instant gratification' mentality is disgusting and against the spirit of the game.


What i find disgusting is paying for a game that demands me to be lifeless in order to invest in it several hours a day in order to earn any meaningful reward. Roll



So - why do you still pay for it?

And meaningful reward? In instanced frig-pvp matches? Lol...

Quote:

PvP agents are not about instant reward. They are about getting fun with EVE in the only niche of time you have for it after a hard day's work and don't have that fun spoiled by a jobless punk with way too much time.


Reading comprehension ftw.

Step one: Get into an active corp - highsec and decshielded if you insist.
Step two: Type the line: 'Anyone up for a frig 1o1?' in corp chat (you can copy&paste it from here too if that's too much effort).
Step three: Fleet up
Step four: Meet at safespot, shoot away...

Now how hard is that? Roll
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Alara IonStorm
#48 - 2011-11-19 16:09:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Large Collidable Object wrote:

MNagy wrote:

The mission would give you a "keycard" for your jumpgate. (explained below).
[...]
Since the Jumpgate requires your keycard, nobody else can come and remote rep or anything.
[...]
When in this special pvp room that you can only get to with the gate, fleet bonus's do not work

He didn't say the word 'instance', yet that's pretty much the closest thing to an instanced pvp arena imaginable.

No it is not because that is not Instancing it is access restriction. It is surprising that so many EVE players view that as Instancing.

Quote:

It shouldn't provide any payout - LP or isk or standing-wise - that's just too much special treatment. Which leaves the question why they don't hook up with some corpmates and drop some cans, organise corp tournaments etc...

This 'instant gratification' mentality is disgusting and against the spirit of the game.

Why even have rewards at all, Murder is it's own reward.

As for organizing Corps and dropping cans I am gonna just go a head and give the answer you don't want. Because I just plain don't want too. That would be boring as Balls. Not helped that it is ineffective because casuals won't join so 90% of your fights / variety are gone. Dropping a can gets you aggressed to one guy and a War Dec takes a week commitment where you have to be part of a Corp.

All what is unnecessary complication. I would prefer to just log on an shoot some days with a bunch random strangers. Instead of Fleeting up going to the staging area and going 30 jumps to find very little. When I only have 20 Minutes to log in I want more then a Lvl 4 basically.
Lexmana
#49 - 2011-11-19 16:38:01 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:

No it is not because that is not Instancing it is access restriction. It is surprising that so many EVE players view that as Instancing.


And what makes it different from an instance in any meaningful way?
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
#50 - 2011-11-19 16:46:45 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:

Step two: Type the line: 'Anyone up for a frig 1o1?' in corp chat (you can copy&paste it from here too if that's too much effort).


That would be like kissing your sister.

It totally lacks the adrenaline rush of pew pew with a complete stranger.

I am not Prencleeve Grothsmore.
Alara IonStorm
#51 - 2011-11-19 16:50:12 UTC
Lexmana wrote:

And what makes it different from an instance in any meaningful way?

Because it is literally not Instancing, it has zero to do with instancing. If you are going to say something is Instanced it helps to know the definition of the word.
MNagy
Yo-Mama
#52 - 2011-11-19 18:08:34 UTC
I have read the prior reply's and there seems to be an emerging arguement to "instancing".
Ok, whether it be a restricted site like the final pocket in Angel Extravaganza, or an instance like a wh.... Lets ignore the "programming aspect" of this idea. Thats up to ccp to decide.

A couple questions came up during the last 3 pages and I would like to give my reasons for them...

Question 1: Why not have a pvp mission agent for all levels...why just level 4's?
Answer: My reasoning for this, is so you don't get someone like me going up to level 1 agents and getting a pvp mission and whopping the butt of a brand new eve player. Once you have attained level 4's with an agent, you are no longer 'gullable' in the game and your skills in the tiny ships do seem to hold up towards older players.

Question 2: Why not join Red Vs Blue or another corp and go hunting?
Answer: I like my corp, we are a corp of really good friends. I do not want to give taxes to some other corp, and I don't need any more drama from 12 year old telling me what I can and can't do in a corp. Our corp was formed to get away from stuff like that, our corp keeps our assets safe... so I simply will not join another corp for that reason.

Question 3: Why not just pvp against someone in your corp of in your alliance?
Answer: Because when you do not know your targets 'toon age', or the ship they are bringing ( just the class of ship ), and you do not know their skillset ( if they are really good at jamming or rockets or neuting you )... there defenitly is an exciting "im gonna get my butt whooped or im gonna win" factor that plays.

Question 4: Why not fix faction warefare?
Answer: To be honest, I don't know much about faction warefare, it wasn't explained 'that great' during the tutorial missions I did about 2 years ago and I really haven't touched them since. I don't know what these do to your faction standing. But again, this is a battle that takes place when 1 person usually is not ready for pvp and the other is im assuming. Someone gets 'jumped' by the apposing team.

Question 5: You should move this discussion to a different Forum.
Answer: I want a general discussion about this idea about whats wrong with it, whats right with it, and if its feasable... if you want to go make 12 other posts in a different forum go ahead. I chose this one, and I don't have the time to follow 20 forums.


One other point I would like to make about introducing some kind of pvp to HS, is that even though the ships are "small", stuff is getting blown up. So some prices will rise because of it. I'm sure plenty of people would suddenly make up pvp fits and try to sell them on the market as well.

Anyway... thank you all (so far) for adding very interesting comments and at least keeping the discussion cival. I have read them all - and even the links. One thing that amazed me was how a very simillar idea was posted November 2nd... how some of us are starting to think of "the same thing" eve might "need" ("need" is a bad word for this sentance) to make the game more enjoyable for others.

Don't forget, I am not trying to 'ruin' or break eve or make your gameplay worse. I am trying to come up with introducing a new type of play into eve that 51% or more of the population would enjoy.

Cheers'
Alara IonStorm
#53 - 2011-11-19 18:32:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
MNagy wrote:
I have read the prior reply's and there seems to be an emerging arguement to "instancing".
Ok, whether it be a restricted site like the final pocket in Angel Extravaganza, or an instance like a wh.... Lets ignore the "programming aspect" of this idea. Thats up to ccp to decide.

Wormholes are not Instanced.

I am just gonna go ahead and explain what Instancing is. A Instance is when you have an area of the game in which multiple copies are made of that area so that people can run the same content at the same time without interaction.

An example of what would be considered an Instance if one was added to EVE Online. You remember the Yulai Station that was destroyed by combined Thukker Tribe Minmatar Fleet that sparked the Elder War between the Amarr and Minmatar Empires. This is an event that happened in Space a while ago. Now imagine if you created a new Character and warped to the Station, surrounding it is 3 older Characters who are looking at the burning ruins of the Station. You can see them, they can see you. Yet when you look at the Station it looks undamaged. That is an object Instanced in the world for story purposes.

As for using it in content imagine CCP creates a special Mission, possibly one off or repeatable in which you or maybe a set number in a group warp to the station and there is a fleet of Republic Ships fighting the Station and it's Concord defenders. No one at the station can see you or the enemy fleet and you can't see them despite both being on the same grid as the station. You destroy the various Mobs of Rifters and Tempests around the Station and a Naglfar Dreadnaught Boss Spawns. You defeat it and are hailed as one of the hero's who tried to defend the station by Concord perhaps getting an achievement or medal of some sort. From now on the Station looks destroyed to you but a new player will see the Station as brand new.

That is how an Instanced experience would look in EVE. It's useful for things like running historical content and such by copying common area's so they can manipulate the landscape at will without effecting others perceptions. That is what Instancing is, players seeing different things despite being in the same spot. Not locked acceleration gates, that is just not Instancing.
Dbars Grinding
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#54 - 2011-11-19 21:38:40 UTC
PvP is too much work and a pain in the ass. I would love a instant form up pvp.

I have more space likes than you. 
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2011-11-19 21:58:30 UTC
I don’t object to the idea, I don’t feel the argument that this would take away from another part of Eve gameplay or impact development time on other items is really valid.

However the proposal certainly perhaps needs a lot of thought in regards to balancing and rewards and I do not really like the idea of acceleration gates requiring keys although I realise that opens this up to cheating but that is eve. Also given that you would be recovering modules from the opposing ships wreck then mission rewards would need to be virtually nill.

I also think I would prefer opposing mission objectives with aggression granted to destroy the opponent if needed, I just feel this sits better from a role-play perspective and makes it different from normal PVP. If the gates are not locked then Mission NPC’s could also help give third party intruders a hard time.
Fist1
Phantoms of Kyros
#56 - 2011-11-19 22:12:27 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Ive always thought there should be more ways to get pvp in whats supposed to be a pvp game. This sort of battle arena would be one way. Also,video of the combat site could be broadcast , and people could be given the opportunity to watch to bet on the outcome of battles. Might even be worthwhile Incarna content for establishments; you go to a bar, sit with friends or enemies, and bet on the fights.



I actually like this idea the best. Have a NPC broker for taking bets and make 1v1 fighting a profession in eve. Possibly have the NPC's hold a once a month tourny between major factions. payout for only the top 3 finishers once a month.
Lexmana
#57 - 2011-11-19 22:47:43 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Lexmana wrote:

And what makes it different from an instance in any meaningful way?

Because it is literally not Instancing, it has zero to do with instancing. If you are going to say something is Instanced it helps to know the definition of the word.


Do you know the meaning of the word 'meaningful'?
Alara IonStorm
#58 - 2011-11-19 23:28:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Lexmana wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Lexmana wrote:

And what makes it different from an instance in any meaningful way?

Because it is literally not Instancing, it has zero to do with instancing. If you are going to say something is Instanced it helps to know the definition of the word.


Do you know the meaning of the word 'meaningful'?

I know it means less to me then fun.

So you can still get your "meaningful" with these missions and I will get my fun. Win win.
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#59 - 2011-11-19 23:30:59 UTC
MNagy wrote:


Question 1: Why not have a pvp mission agent for all levels...why just level 4's?
Answer: My reasoning for this, is so you don't get someone like me going up to level 1 agents and getting a pvp mission and whopping the butt of a brand new eve player. Once you have attained level 4's with an agent, you are no longer 'gullable' in the game and your skills in the tiny ships do seem to hold up towards older players.


Usually they don't. I've come accross shocking lack of knowledge about anything tracking/speed/pvp related from all maxed out Golem/whatver missionboat pilots in the past - they've lfown a frigate for exactly as long as they needed to, which nowadays is what? A day?

Alara IonStorm wrote:
text.


What you're referring to is parallel instancing. Eve is heavily instanced already - any solar system or even grid is an instance.

Anyway - that's nitpicking, but as Lexmana put it: If you're in a 'special room' nobody can meaningfully interact with any of the players inside except chat, there's no meaningful difference to a parallel instance.

Concerning the 'kissing you own sister'/ 'knowing the other guys skillset and ships' argument: I've been in small, tight-knit corps and huge alliances. In the first case, I'd trust my mates to not check what ship I'm in, neither would I tell them - kinda defeats the purpose.

In the former case, I wouldn't know 99% of the people anyway (and still trust them not to cheat in a fun frig 1 on 1).
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
FeralShadow
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2011-11-20 01:07:29 UTC
yeah so all this thinking about "that's what makes Eve what it is" is pretty much crap. Eve is what the players make it, and this "instanced" PVP scenario won't hurt or really affect anything in eve other than bringing PVP knowledge to those who normally wouldn't even bother. I fail to see how "that isn't eve" justifies preventing people from pvp experience which could only improve everybody's gameplay.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
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