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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Justice shall be served!

Author
Dangirdas Bachir
The Exiled Titans
#41 - 2013-11-19 08:05:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Dangirdas Bachir
Naomi Tichim wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Dangirdas Bachir wrote:
this is not about you or me, this is about what's right. And the last time i checked slavery is not.


You've clearly been checking in the wrong places then.

Slavery is a wonderful institution that has saved many souls from ignorance and damnation.


Slavery is an abominable institution that gives men ultimate power over others, and opens the door for the darkest impules to be unleashed.

Tell me why I was born a slave, but the man who abused and raped me was born free. What sin did I commit to deserve this?

None, you never deserved it. I'm happy you got out in time Naomi before you entered damnation. I can see some effects the slavery has caused, you seem quite thin and pale.

EVE EVE STARGALACTIC CITY B I T C H

Naomi Tichim
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
#42 - 2013-11-19 08:09:03 UTC
Dangirdas Bachir wrote:
Naomi Tichim wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Dangirdas Bachir wrote:
this is not about you or me, this is about what's right. And the last time i checked slavery is not.


You've clearly been checking in the wrong places then.

Slavery is a wonderful institution that has saved many souls from ignorance and damnation.


Slavery is an abominable institution that gives men ultimate power over others, and opens the door for the darkest impules to be unleashed.

Tell me why I was born a slave, but the man who abused and raped me was born free. What sin did I commit to deserve this?

None, you never deserved it. I'm happy you got out in time Naomi before you entered damnation.


Just remember that when you start killing Amarrians - not all of us support slavery. Some, like me, oppose it even while remaining loyal to the Empire as a whole. The Empire is not slavery. If the Empress were to abolish slavery tomorrow, we'd survive. And frankly, I think an economic downturn would be suitable penance for all the abuses that have occurred under slavery's banner.
Dangirdas Bachir
The Exiled Titans
#43 - 2013-11-19 08:15:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Dangirdas Bachir
Naomi Tichim wrote:
Dangirdas Bachir wrote:
Naomi Tichim wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Dangirdas Bachir wrote:
this is not about you or me, this is about what's right. And the last time i checked slavery is not.


You've clearly been checking in the wrong places then.

Slavery is a wonderful institution that has saved many souls from ignorance and damnation.


Slavery is an abominable institution that gives men ultimate power over others, and opens the door for the darkest impules to be unleashed.

Tell me why I was born a slave, but the man who abused and raped me was born free. What sin did I commit to deserve this?

None, you never deserved it. I'm happy you got out in time Naomi before you entered damnation.


Just remember that when you start killing Amarrians - not all of us support slavery. Some, like me, oppose it even while remaining loyal to the Empire as a whole. The Empire is not slavery. If the Empress were to abolish slavery tomorrow, we'd survive. And frankly, I think an economic downturn would be suitable penance for all the abuses that have occurred under slavery's banner.

You can leave the Empire, join the Gallente, become an immigrant, there is space for all. I encourage all Amarrians to reconsider their standings. It's not just about slavery, it's also about freedom.

EVE EVE STARGALACTIC CITY B I T C H

Naomi Tichim
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
#44 - 2013-11-19 08:27:49 UTC
Dangirdas Bachir wrote:
Naomi Tichim wrote:

Just remember that when you start killing Amarrians - not all of us support slavery. Some, like me, oppose it even while remaining loyal to the Empire as a whole. The Empire is not slavery. If the Empress were to abolish slavery tomorrow, we'd survive. And frankly, I think an economic downturn would be suitable penance for all the abuses that have occurred under slavery's banner.

You can leave the Empire, join the Gallente, become an immigrant, there is space for all. I encourage all Amarrians to reconsider their standings. It's not just about slavery, it's also about freedom.


Indeed, I can. As a matter of fact, I'm currently residing in the Federation. But I choose to remain loyal to my homeland. Because while it was the Empire that enslaved me, it was also the Empire that rescued me and freed me. I admit that my nation has many flaws, but I believe it can still be something better.
Dangirdas Bachir
The Exiled Titans
#45 - 2013-11-19 08:33:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Dangirdas Bachir
Naomi Tichim wrote:
Dangirdas Bachir wrote:
Naomi Tichim wrote:

Just remember that when you start killing Amarrians - not all of us support slavery. Some, like me, oppose it even while remaining loyal to the Empire as a whole. The Empire is not slavery. If the Empress were to abolish slavery tomorrow, we'd survive. And frankly, I think an economic downturn would be suitable penance for all the abuses that have occurred under slavery's banner.

You can leave the Empire, join the Gallente, become an immigrant, there is space for all. I encourage all Amarrians to reconsider their standings. It's not just about slavery, it's also about freedom.


Indeed, I can. As a matter of fact, I'm currently residing in the Federation. But I choose to remain loyal to my homeland. Because while it was the Empire that enslaved me, it was also the Empire that rescued me and freed me. I admit that my nation has many flaws, but I believe it can still be something better.

I respect that you want to remain loyal, but in time you will see, that siding with conservative religious zealots will never end well. They might have enslaved you, and saved you, but that doesn't mean you should stay with them.

EVE EVE STARGALACTIC CITY B I T C H

Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#46 - 2013-11-23 05:33:00 UTC
Dangirdas Bachir wrote:
While scavenging one day we were ambushed by some greedy Amarr scum, my fellow scavenger friends died trying to defend the loot , i realized that there was no way of getting out of this, they had outgunned us, and outsmarted us.


After that impressive display of cohesion, vocabulary and sentence structure, I would say that being outsmarted by Amarrians was somewhat of a forgone conclusion, yes?
Dangirdas Bachir
The Exiled Titans
#47 - 2013-11-24 20:10:17 UTC
Lady Katherine Devonshire wrote:
Dangirdas Bachir wrote:
While scavenging one day we were ambushed by some greedy Amarr scum, my fellow scavenger friends died trying to defend the loot , i realized that there was no way of getting out of this, they had outgunned us, and outsmarted us.


After that impressive display of cohesion, vocabulary and sentence structure, I would say that being outsmarted by Amarrians was somewhat of a forgone conclusion, yes?

Please "Lady" Katherine, take your insults somewhere else. Go kidnap some innocent Minmatar and enslave them, will you.

EVE EVE STARGALACTIC CITY B I T C H

Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#48 - 2013-12-01 02:06:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Katherine Devonshire
Dangirdas Bachir wrote:
Go kidnap some innocent Minmatar and enslave them, will you.


Would someone care to educate Mr.Bachir on how many decades out of date his information is?

Since their rebellion over 125 years ago there have been zero sanctioned invasions of the Republic by the Empire.

If only everyone was so good at upholding treaties, hmm?

(PS - I eagerly await the knee-jerk responses on how upholding treaties is a sign of weakness or something.)
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#49 - 2013-12-01 02:16:20 UTC
Pretty sure I've heard Reppies talk about fending off sizable Empire Navy forces in Republic space. Obviously, the same goes for pretty much everyone and their enemies these days, but it'd be rather stupid to claim it didn't happen or that it wasn't sanctioned. What's publicly admitted to would obviously be something else entirely.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.

Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#50 - 2013-12-01 02:48:03 UTC
That the Elder Fleet attack on CONCORD wasn't sanctioned is an oft touted excuse, and if one were to believe it then by that same train of thought one could invade a dozen Republic worlds under the same masque.

However, this has not happened. My point still stands.
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#51 - 2013-12-01 03:45:14 UTC
Like I said, no one's ever going to admit they were sanctioned, but the number of "rogue" admirals and staff has to be quite prodigious indeed if they weren't. It doesn't serve anyone well to press the matter further, since that would force retaliation and war.

Your point certainly does not stand. The Empire has without a glimmer of doubt attacked, raided and enslaved within the Republic. The Republic has without a glimmer of a doubt performed vicious attacks on Empire assets and planets. Let's not even start with what capsuleers can report having seen occur between the federation and the State.

His information is pretty "up to date". Pretending otherwise is for the empires themselves, so there can be at least a modicum of peace yet.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#52 - 2013-12-01 06:36:50 UTC
Jinari Otsito wrote:
Like I said, no one's ever going to admit they were sanctioned, but the number of "rogue" admirals and staff has to be quite prodigious indeed if they weren't. It doesn't serve anyone well to press the matter further, since that would force retaliation and war.

Your point certainly does not stand. The Empire has without a glimmer of doubt attacked, raided and enslaved within the Republic. The Republic has without a glimmer of a doubt performed vicious attacks on Empire assets and planets. Let's not even start with what capsuleers can report having seen occur between the federation and the State.

His information is pretty "up to date". Pretending otherwise is for the empires themselves, so there can be at least a modicum of peace yet.


I think she was referring to the comments on enslavement. We have a bevy of treaties and the law of the Empress that does not allow us to forcibly enslave anyone from another empire unless they are directly engaging us in combat and are captured (thus becoming subject to our penal code). Warfare may be continuing according to factional dictates, but we aren't randomly enslaving all the Matari in systems that capsuleers are conquering or re-conquering on the Empire's behalf. Not only is that a largely dated practice, it's proven to not work in practice; the number of people who actually need to be enslaved to be converted is far less than a completely subjugated population.

So yes, that information is wrong and out of date. While conflict continues, you need to have evidence to "convict" people and send them into slavery these days. Slavers who don't like the new rules and haven't changed professional practice are generally working for other slaveholding organizations who are less scrupulous than the Amarrian Empire.

Should you encounter a registered Amarrian slaver trying to smuggle elicit slaves into the general population, do contact our civic authorities. Trust me, most of them have every reason to enjoy stripping dodgy slavers of their freedom. Those who intentionally falsify records to subvert the will of the Empress find themselves wishing slavery was an option for their punishment.

These days, if you're being swept up by a slaver as a non-criminal civilian, you're generally being taken to a Blood Raider farm, a Sansha operating table, or worse.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#53 - 2013-12-01 07:30:44 UTC
Yes. People are imagining the fleets in Republic space then. Expensive illusions the eggers get paid to fend off. Illegal or not, they're happening, mate. I'd go record some footage myself, if I could survive that sort of firepower. It's so silly to keep pretending. Maybe I should try. "State forces only ever toodle about in lowsec where the proxy war happens. Otherwise, nothing but criminals and rogues in Fed and Republic space."

Ow. I need more drugs to make that that believable to me.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#54 - 2013-12-01 08:16:43 UTC
Jinari Otsito wrote:
Yes. People are imagining the fleets in Republic space then. Expensive illusions the eggers get paid to fend off. Illegal or not, they're happening, mate. I'd go record some footage myself, if I could survive that sort of firepower. It's so silly to keep pretending. Maybe I should try. "State forces only ever toodle about in lowsec where the proxy war happens. Otherwise, nothing but criminals and rogues in Fed and Republic space."

Ow. I need more drugs to make that that believable to me.


I fly around in Matari space armed with rockets. Do I get to be a nightmarish invader as well? That would be about the first time anyone has ever described me as a threat to peace.

The empires did legislate a war. Other than that, they really don't tend to invade each other with the epic displays you're referring to. Not only does CONCORD tend to get involved in that sort of thing, but the empires themselves don't make any headway doing that. If the Elder War proved anything, it's that such invasions tend to cost more than they're worth.

Are you sure you're not seeing capsuleer nationalist fleets shooting at each other? Those tend to be a lot more common and quite a bit less dangerous to planetside populations. For sure, they tend to care about little other than themselves.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#55 - 2013-12-01 10:40:00 UTC
Of course there are armed skirmishes and incursions on all sides, the kind negligible enough not to provoke a war, or more precisely, the kind murky enough not to provoke one.

Said groups pose either disguised as rogue slavers or freedom fighters (both of which are still criminally flagged by CONCORD by the way), or just actually being those and not affiliated to any faction. But even in the case of the former, they are not condoned by their respective governments, often part of private groups (Amarrian Houses or Minmatar subtribes doing their own illegal business).

To know if both parties are actually truly invested or not in tracking down those impostors or rogue elements, is another matter. Of course, they have a "war" to wage, after all. It was already the case before the war, especially around Derelik and the daily struggle for the valuables on the contested border zone between "non sanctioned Republic entities" and Ammatar flags backed up by Caldari megas.

People just conveniently forget that it goes both ways.
Marnian Veroe
National Republican Party
#56 - 2013-12-01 11:02:51 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Dangirdas Bachir wrote:

The Amarr are just a bunch of conservatives!


You say that as though it's a bad thing.

Indeed. There are many in the Federation who prefer the Amarr, despite their "peculiar institutions", to our current allies...


Indeed. I would heartily support new mutual and beneficial endeavours between the Federation and the Amarr Empire. Especially now that the war between the Federation and the State has become stale, and even more absurd than before.

The Minmatar are a hindrance and a drain on our economy and social stability, as well as just a pure threat to the safety of our worlds. One has to be blind not to see the evidence of that.

Everywhere in the news.
Naomi Tichim
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
#57 - 2013-12-01 15:07:54 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Jinari Otsito wrote:
Like I said, no one's ever going to admit they were sanctioned, but the number of "rogue" admirals and staff has to be quite prodigious indeed if they weren't. It doesn't serve anyone well to press the matter further, since that would force retaliation and war.

Your point certainly does not stand. The Empire has without a glimmer of doubt attacked, raided and enslaved within the Republic. The Republic has without a glimmer of a doubt performed vicious attacks on Empire assets and planets. Let's not even start with what capsuleers can report having seen occur between the federation and the State.

His information is pretty "up to date". Pretending otherwise is for the empires themselves, so there can be at least a modicum of peace yet.


I think she was referring to the comments on enslavement. We have a bevy of treaties and the law of the Empress that does not allow us to forcibly enslave anyone from another empire unless they are directly engaging us in combat and are captured (thus becoming subject to our penal code). Warfare may be continuing according to factional dictates, but we aren't randomly enslaving all the Matari in systems that capsuleers are conquering or re-conquering on the Empire's behalf. Not only is that a largely dated practice, it's proven to not work in practice; the number of people who actually need to be enslaved to be converted is far less than a completely subjugated population.

So yes, that information is wrong and out of date. While conflict continues, you need to have evidence to "convict" people and send them into slavery these days. Slavers who don't like the new rules and haven't changed professional practice are generally working for other slaveholding organizations who are less scrupulous than the Amarrian Empire.

Should you encounter a registered Amarrian slaver trying to smuggle elicit slaves into the general population, do contact our civic authorities. Trust me, most of them have every reason to enjoy stripping dodgy slavers of their freedom. Those who intentionally falsify records to subvert the will of the Empress find themselves wishing slavery was an option for their punishment.

These days, if you're being swept up by a slaver as a non-criminal civilian, you're generally being taken to a Blood Raider farm, a Sansha operating table, or worse.


True, but there is still a sizable black market. The number one reason the large-scale slave raids are rare is the Republic Fleet. Number two is the Tribal Liberation Force. However, there are still plenty of illicit slaving operations. They just work in the shadows. Sometimes they attack mining colonies or isolated settlements, but what's increasingly common (and should be very disturbing to non-Amarrians) is that they work with domestic criminal syndicates. On certain planets, people who **** off the local gangs might just end up being sold to Amarrian slavers. And this isn't limited to the Republic. In fact, many illicit slavers prefer to work in the Gallente Federation or even the Caldari State, as the Gallente and Caldari security forces aren't nearly as sensitive to this sort of thing as the Minmatar are.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#58 - 2013-12-01 17:10:08 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:

You've clearly been checking in the wrong places then.

Slavery is a wonderful institution that has saved many souls from ignorance and damnation.


Saves people from ignorance, does it? If so, you could use a few years of the collar and whip Blake.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#59 - 2013-12-01 17:23:08 UTC
Marnian Veroe wrote:

Indeed. I would heartily support new mutual and beneficial endeavours between the Federation and the Amarr Empire. Especially now that the war between the Federation and the State has become stale, and even more absurd than before.

The Minmatar are a hindrance and a drain on our economy and social stability, as well as just a pure threat to the safety of our worlds. One has to be blind not to see the evidence of that.

Everywhere in the news.


Spoken like a true ultra-nationalist.

You do realize that persons of Minmatar descent make up 1/3 of the Federation's population and are by far the largest and most powerful minority group, that ethnic Matari make up a large proportion of both laborers and front-line military units? Do you think that this large group of citizens would be happy about your cutting ties with the Republic and hopping into bed with the Amarr? Would these people be happy about working in and defending a Federation that cozied up with the slavers?

Perhaps in your "Gallente for Gallenteans" fantasies you'd like this to happen but, more savvy and pragmatic politicians would never want to alienate such a huge voting bloc by doing what you propose.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Kaid Hayden
Seven Stars Search and Rescue
#60 - 2013-12-01 17:41:54 UTC
There'll always be some Gallente hypocrites who love to reap the benefits of the Minmatar working men and women building their ships, maintaining their drones, dying in their wars, but hate to acknowledge their sacrifices, contributions and experiences.