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So you wanna see more people in low sec and 0.0
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Renfus
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#1 - 2011-11-18 02:42:54 UTC
lower the costs of ships by half by putting high end ore in high sec.
Maybe reduce the building and material costs...
You will then see more people willing to risk ships pvping and venturing into 0.0 ....
OR
Fix insurance so it actually covers the cost of ships and mods...not just the ships material cost which isnt even close...

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Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#2 - 2011-11-18 04:30:38 UTC
Dude, it won't fix anything.

Fugly drakes are already free, yet people hardly ever put them into risky fights.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Nezumiiro Noneko
Alternative Enterprises
#3 - 2011-11-18 04:38:29 UTC
Renfus wrote:
lower the costs of ships by half by putting high end ore in high sec.
Maybe reduce the building and material costs...
You will then see more people willing to risk ships pvping and venturing into 0.0 ....
OR
Fix insurance so it actually covers the cost of ships and mods...not just the ships material cost which isnt even close...



how will high end ores in empire reduce price? miners would keep he same price as is now. Or boost it. Look at PI. It took materials NPC sold cheap and marked it up to ungodly amounts. Funny thing was it was supposed to be cheaper. Even funnier, since PI touches t2 construction (construction blocks for ships, rocket fuel for missile ammo, pos parts anf fuel to run them for resarch and such) that added to t2 costs as well.

Insurance...is set up to have pvp not the eternal grind it is in other games. You know games like warhammer where you die, respawn, die respawn. Guy goes broke, he sn't making that reinforcment titan bridge. 1 less player for the night, many more to go. that low on cash...you have to know when to hold em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away, and when to run.
Renfus
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#4 - 2011-11-18 05:10:52 UTC
well if prices didnt come down you could mine the ore and build the ships your self...

At first... yes i do see greedy builders trying to capitalize off the easy to get high end ore by still charging high prices BUT the prices will drop... only stupid would pay high prices for ore / ships once they make the ore available to high sec miners..
they will flood the market and prices will drop... it has to eventually..

And drakes are not free .. The average price for them is about 30 mil... after their fitted your looking at 50-100 mil depending on how you fit them... unless you go all T1...

Maybe if your rich you can afford to throw isk around but I cant afford it and ALOT of other people can not either...

Ratting and grinding missions is as boring as mining... it all takes time to get the isk to replace lost ships & mods...
if you make them cheaper / easier to build, you will see more people risking them... because it wont take as much to replace them...

anyways, yall can say what you want but i know im right...

((( Alliance Creation ))) Corp Update Service available ( 10,600 Member limit ). ++ Free with Alliance Creation ++ Contact me In-Game.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#5 - 2011-11-18 14:01:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Fon Revedhort
Renfus wrote:

And drakes are not free .. The average price for them is about 30 mil... after their fitted your looking at 50-100 mil depending on how you fit them... unless you go all T1...

You personal drake may cost a fortune if you so please, but I know that most drakes I met on a daily basis cost like 20-30 mil after insurance. And yes, that's free. My combat boosters cost that much.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#6 - 2011-11-18 16:26:12 UTC
Renfus wrote:
well if prices didnt come down you could mine the ore and build the ships your self...

At first... yes i do see greedy builders trying to capitalize off the easy to get high end ore by still charging high prices BUT the prices will drop... only stupid would pay high prices for ore / ships once they make the ore available to high sec miners..
they will flood the market and prices will drop... it has to eventually..

And drakes are not free .. The average price for them is about 30 mil... after their fitted your looking at 50-100 mil depending on how you fit them... unless you go all T1...

Maybe if your rich you can afford to throw isk around but I cant afford it and ALOT of other people can not either...

Ratting and grinding missions is as boring as mining... it all takes time to get the isk to replace lost ships & mods...
if you make them cheaper / easier to build, you will see more people risking them... because it wont take as much to replace them...

anyways, yall can say what you want but i know im right...



You know... there are lots of other sources of income in this game besides missions.....
Passive RP can net you a 100m a month....
10 min / day PI can net you a few 100 m a month...
Man & Res can earn you a several 100m a month....
Trade can earn you a few bil a month....

Here's a secret.... Missioners and Miners are the factory workers of eve.... You can make a decent living at it, but you'll never be wealthy!!

Also, if money is an issue... fly t1. Then, when you learn how to engage, when to engage, etc... you can pay for you entire pvp with loot!!!
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#7 - 2011-11-18 17:58:48 UTC
ITT Op does not understand economics.
Pelador Rova
No Luck Corp
#8 - 2011-11-18 18:17:10 UTC
Renfus wrote:

Fix insurance so it actually covers the cost of ships and mods...not just the ships material cost which isnt even close...



Consider this scenario:

Player fits a T1 BS with the most expensive mods he can find. Arranges insurance based on new ship price with mods.

Price of ship: 100 mil
Price with mods: 1 bil

Insurance payout based on 1bil value comes to > (100mil + insurance cost)

He then subsequently removes all mods, undocks and gets destroyed by a buddy, $$$ KERCHING $$$, rinse and repeat.


If you can think of a dynamic isnurance system that works I'm all ears.
Renfus
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#9 - 2011-11-19 22:54:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Renfus
Pelador Rova wrote:
Renfus wrote:

Fix insurance so it actually covers the cost of ships and mods...not just the ships material cost which isnt even close...



Consider this scenario:

Player fits a T1 BS with the most expensive mods he can find. Arranges insurance based on new ship price with mods.

Price of ship: 100 mil
Price with mods: 1 bil

Insurance payout based on 1bil value comes to > (100mil + insurance cost)

He then subsequently removes all mods, undocks and gets destroyed by a buddy, $$$ KERCHING $$$, rinse and repeat.


If you can think of a dynamic isnurance system that works I'm all ears.


They would need to change the way insurance works so you cant insure for a set amount but instead it would only cover your ship and any mods that were destroyed.... Not mods that survived since they can be used again...
just set a default insurance cost depending on ship class...

((( Alliance Creation ))) Corp Update Service available ( 10,600 Member limit ). ++ Free with Alliance Creation ++ Contact me In-Game.
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2011-11-19 23:17:28 UTC
I had a long spiel for this one but lost the will to type it all out so I will resort to the tried and tested method of: HELL NO!
Renfus
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#11 - 2011-11-20 00:05:18 UTC
Smiling Menace wrote:
I had a long spiel for this one but lost the will to type it all out so I will resort to the tried and tested method of: HELL NO!


what a shame... A little constructive criticism would have been nice.

((( Alliance Creation ))) Corp Update Service available ( 10,600 Member limit ). ++ Free with Alliance Creation ++ Contact me In-Game.
Pelador Rova
No Luck Corp
#12 - 2011-11-20 00:51:01 UTC
Renfus wrote:
Pelador Rova wrote:
Renfus wrote:

Fix insurance so it actually covers the cost of ships and mods...not just the ships material cost which isnt even close...



Consider this scenario:

Player fits a T1 BS with the most expensive mods he can find. Arranges insurance based on new ship price with mods.

Price of ship: 100 mil
Price with mods: 1 bil

Insurance payout based on 1bil value comes to > (100mil + insurance cost)

He then subsequently removes all mods, undocks and gets destroyed by a buddy, $$$ KERCHING $$$, rinse and repeat.


If you can think of a dynamic isnurance system that works I'm all ears.


They would need to change the way insurance works so you cant insure for a set amount but instead it would only cover your ship and any mods that were destroyed.... Not mods that survived since they can be used again...
just set a default insurance cost depending on ship class...


Insurance works purely on a contract based on risk prior to any problems. If you dont pay a set amount prior to any destruction then how do the insurance companies make any potential profit? Since, If insurance is only ever applicable on a destruction event then the company always loses if they pay out more than the insurance value. Hence why I'm not convinced you can use a dynamic system and have to make a payment in advance.

If you can set any risk based insurance higher than the ship value based on expensive mods then you have a predetermined value set where upon removal of the mods still creates the above problem? If you have a default value based on ship class that still creates this problem then it doesnt help. Classes have a large price deviation for class so averaging will only make exploitation more of a problem by abusing as above with the cheapest in the class.