These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Phoenixes are not as bad as people think.
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
TheMercenaryKing
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-11-18 20:25:20 UTC  |  Edited by: TheMercenaryKing
http://eve-files.com/dl/265943


Either both EFT and PYFA calculate Missile damage wrong or people don't understand. Granted a phoenix is shield tanked (the horror), but dreadnoughts are kind of disposable.

The above linked graph:

  • Both Dreads have 2 damage modifying low slots equipped and are using faction ammo. Both use close raneg weapons (pulse/torps)
  • The Carrier and titan are empty fits.
  • I checked with a max sig reduction boost and it only made minor differences. (strong X, titan with skirmish implant and evasive II, 100MN afterburner) - afterburner did help the carrier more against the rev

    • Green: Phoenix vs Rag
    Red: Rev vs Rag
    Teal: Rev vs Archon
    Blue: Phoenix vs Archon

    As you can see, before resists, a phoenix vs Rag is more effective than a Revelation. However, against a carrier moving perpendicularity to the dread, the Revelation would do less damage before resists in a 21-33KM range.

    Here are the main factors for turrets vs missiles:
  • Missiles are weak against speed, move any direction as fast as you can with the lowest possible sig. since traversal isn't an issue, use a target painter if needed.
  • Turrets are weak against direction. Moving perpendicularity will maximize your survivability by increasing your traversal with the lowest possible sig as fast as you can. Both Sig and Tracking can be an issue, choose wisely.



    • Granted in this i did use the most extreme cases, but this is eve, always think your going to get hot-dropped in anything. even in a cyno rookie ship.

    I know people are going to say something about the kinetic damage type, and yes, thats a 25% damage bonus to that damage type BUT depending on the ship i fly, i personally try to level out my weakest resist. By default kinetic is a higher resist , but usual only 1 kinetic hardener, a damage control, and an Enam or invuln.
    Batelle
    Federal Navy Academy
    #2 - 2013-11-18 20:44:34 UTC
    I'm pretty sure that a phoenix and revelation will be doing the exact same amount of DPS once the Ragnarok DDs them.

    "**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

    Never forget.
    TheMercenaryKing
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #3 - 2013-11-18 21:05:00 UTC
    Batelle wrote:
    I'm pretty sure that a phoenix and revelation will be doing the exact same amount of DPS once the Ragnarok DDs them.


    always have a carrier nearby and 4 or 5 of each resist mods just in case. Granted, tanking an EM doomsday on a shield tank is harder, but you can survive others.
    Sadayiel
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #4 - 2013-11-18 23:51:41 UTC
    It's not about the DPS but about the Alpha!!

    if 20 ships shoots another 20 ships the first one to get casualty starts to get a sligthy advantage.

    Now if we account missiles, the whole issue becomes more funny since the alpha fleet can put more dmg in less time (one big punch) and if they take at least one ship that's less DPS for the opposing fleet (and for missiles the mid air ones stop dealing dmg)

    And since this games revolves around the fact, that everytime a fleet focus fires there is one casualty... wait XXX seconds until missiles impact or your fleet deal equal dmg than your enemy it's avoided.

    Not because it's bad but mostly because it's inneficient on the general view.
    Gypsio III
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #5 - 2013-11-19 00:05:15 UTC
    Being competitive with a Revelation isn't exactly something to be proud of.
    Kirkwood Ross
    Golden Profession
    #6 - 2013-11-19 00:40:05 UTC
    Not much is needed to bash structures and jump out.
    Jack Miton
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #7 - 2013-11-19 00:55:36 UTC
    did you have zero tracking mods on the rev while applying a magnetar's tracking penalty or what?

    There is no Bob.

    Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

    Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
    TheMercenaryKing
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #8 - 2013-11-19 19:03:50 UTC  |  Edited by: TheMercenaryKing
    Jack Miton wrote:
    did you have zero tracking mods on the rev while applying a magnetar's tracking penalty or what?


    the only thing that changed tracking was all level 5 skills. The DPS chart was setup to maximize the targets transversal.

    Sadayiel wrote:
    It's not about the DPS but about the Alpha!!

    if 20 ships shoots another 20 ships the first one to get casualty starts to get a sligthy advantage.

    Now if we account missiles, the whole issue becomes more funny since the alpha fleet can put more dmg in less time (one big punch) and if they take at least one ship that's less DPS for the opposing fleet (and for missiles the mid air ones stop dealing dmg)

    And since this games revolves around the fact, that everytime a fleet focus fires there is one casualty... wait XXX seconds until missiles impact or your fleet deal equal dmg than your enemy it's avoided.

    Not because it's bad but mostly because it's inneficient on the general view.


    People say alpha is a big deal, and yes it is when you bring enough people to alpha something (DD excluded). However, the lack of need to calculate transversal and the static damage output otherwise is in place to bring out balance. In a large scale engagement missiles are not the best choice, but in smaller scales it is more balanced than people seem to believe.

    It's like active vs passive tank. Active tank on smaller scales without logi and an active will suffice, Passive when you bring logi so its harder to break you and you can focus elsewhere.
    Danny John-Peter
    Blue Canary
    Watch This
    #9 - 2013-11-19 19:59:10 UTC
    First.

    The Rev is ****, so it being vaguely competitive with that is still ****.

    Second.

    You can't blap subcaps with the Pheoinix

    Third.

    Its not vertical.