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incursions are slowly killing off LP store profits

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Lek Arthie
Doomheim
#221 - 2011-11-16 22:19:50 UTC
XXSketchxx wrote:
Lek Arthie wrote:

What should be nerfed first of all is moon goo, when that is nerfed, come again.


Yeah I want higher T2 prices too.

Nice try pubbie.



I buy T2, empire people buy T2, incursion runners buy T2, missions runners buy T2, pirates buy T2, carebears buy T2, pvpers buy T2, but the only people that complain when moon goo nerfing comes up, are the 0.0 moon goo operators-0.0 people. Coincidence?
Just mentioning it.... anyone can derive their own conclusions.

Btw your statement is highly incorrect and lacks basic market knowledge.
Lady Aja
#222 - 2011-11-17 04:20:25 UTC
Lek Arthie wrote:
XXSketchxx wrote:
Lek Arthie wrote:

What should be nerfed first of all is moon goo, when that is nerfed, come again.


Yeah I want higher T2 prices too.

Nice try pubbie.



I buy T2, empire people buy T2, incursion runners buy T2, missions runners buy T2, pirates buy T2, carebears buy T2, pvpers buy T2, but the only people that complain when moon goo nerfing comes up, are the 0.0 moon goo operators-0.0 people. Coincidence?
Just mentioning it.... anyone can derive their own conclusions.

Btw your statement is highly incorrect and lacks basic market knowledge.



moon prices go up because tech is the new bottleneck for t2.
as far as i know it cannot be obtained via alchamey, if and when ccp fises that then prices will drop.
where is my ability to link a sig properly CCP you munters!!
Farrina
Doomheim
#223 - 2011-11-17 19:02:52 UTC
Oh look, the Carebears from Null-Sec who have eachother all set blue are crying about how safe Empire Space is.
mingetek
Brainless in Space
#224 - 2011-11-18 07:10:57 UTC
Farrina wrote:
Oh look, the Carebears from Null-Sec who have eachother all set blue are crying about how safe Empire Space is.



empire is about as safe as nullsec.
just sometimes **** happens in empire lol
..
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#225 - 2011-11-18 17:49:16 UTC
XXSketchxx wrote:
mingetek wrote:


everyone knows there is HUGE amounts of nearly no risk in vanguards which is where the lp and isk come from.

I my self have done high sec incursions. 100+m isk an hour. lp to exchange even at 80% trade with any empire corp. was far too easy mind you my main is a 75m sp char.

the only time incursiosn have any sort of risk is in low sec and or null sec.


Oh I agree with you full heartedly.

But a great deal of said incursion runners believe that smart AI NPCs qualify as risk and thus the 100mil/hr reward is justified.

Silly bears amirite?


Yes, you should be able to make as much money as someone dual boxing in a c3 with a single toon in hisec. Because there is just as much risk involved.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#226 - 2011-11-18 23:19:40 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Yes, you should be able to make as much money as someone dual boxing in a c3 with a single toon in hisec. Because there is just as much risk involved.


wow, you mean group pve in an mmo pays out better than solo(is) pve?

:iiam:
Io Koval
Reikoku
Plug N Play
#227 - 2011-11-19 23:15:24 UTC
Why not have incursions spawn only in constellations that have low-sec or null-sec or sov space in them? (if a constellation happens to have a system that is high sec then it's just by lucky chance)

Increases the risk and draws a boat-load of people to the same areas of low sec/null sec.

If this has been mentioned before please forgive me, there's quite a few pages to this discussion.
mingetek
Brainless in Space
#228 - 2011-11-20 00:07:44 UTC
Io Koval wrote:
Why not have incursions spawn only in constellations that have low-sec or null-sec or sov space in them? (if a constellation happens to have a system that is high sec then it's just by lucky chance)

Increases the risk and draws a boat-load of people to the same areas of low sec/null sec.

If this has been mentioned before please forgive me, there's quite a few pages to this discussion.



there was a rivier of tears when ccp sent lvl 5's back to low sec where they was originally intended to be.
if ccp send incursions to lowsec/null sec there will be a flood of tears on a biblical scale. and only noah will be safe..
..
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#229 - 2011-11-20 04:01:15 UTC
mingetek wrote:
Io Koval wrote:
Why not have incursions spawn only in constellations that have low-sec or null-sec or sov space in them? (if a constellation happens to have a system that is high sec then it's just by lucky chance)

Increases the risk and draws a boat-load of people to the same areas of low sec/null sec.

If this has been mentioned before please forgive me, there's quite a few pages to this discussion.



there was a rivier of tears when ccp sent lvl 5's back to low sec where they was originally intended to be.
if ccp send incursions to lowsec/null sec there will be a flood of tears on a biblical scale. and only noah will be safe..



The difference being that incursions were never intended for lowsec only - they were intended for all known space so that way they could get people working together to shoot stuff. And it hasn't yet reached time to send incursions to the graveyard - aka, lowsec.

-Arazel
Strrog
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#230 - 2011-11-21 12:11:37 UTC
Well just wanted to point out that incursions can bring different level of incomes.

First it depends on how many fleets actually competing in the same system.

Second you need to assemble a decent fleet which in some cases may take a while to do. Like to day was doing vanguard incursions for roughly 3 hours it was close to 60 mill an hour including all breaks between pockets and looking for the fleet.
Then depending on where the fleet members are you need to wait for all them to get into the same system.

Now if if take level 4 solo missions which usually yield 20-40 mill an hour depending on the mission type.

Now lets have a look if you play 3 hours a night

in 3 hours you might make 90 mill average in lev 4 missions

in incursion vanguard style you probably will get close to 120 mill where u spent close to 1 hour setting things up in fleet.

I don't see much of a problem here at all with incursions vs level 4 mission lp rewards or money looks pretty even.
Snaggle Pu55
Team Bullet Sponge
#231 - 2011-12-02 21:43:17 UTC
I do agree that having the abilty to instanty convert concord LP to another Corp is unbalanced as it is, Its also unfair on players that have grinded standings with an obscure corp to gain access to rewarding faction BPC runs.

One option to fix the LP conversion is to allow the players standing to that corp to influence the exchange ratio.

So for example if I have 5+ standing to a corp that I've grinded with, my concord lp is converted at 80%

Now if i chooses to convert my lp to an obscure corp ive never had any involvment with my concord LP conversion should be something like 30%

A possible break down table could be something like the following

corp standings to Lp conversion ratio
5+ = 80%
4-5 = 70%
3-4 = 60%
2-3 = 50%
1-2 = 40%
0-1 = 30%

The figures can obviously be tweaked but the mechanic will reward those players which have grinded corp standings and allow them not to be undermined by incursion mission runners with no standings to said corp.
Arelia Nova
7 Dancers and a caldari Shuttle
#232 - 2011-12-03 22:22:49 UTC
Some, if not most items for regular faction level missions now pay in excess of 2000 isk per LP now, I usto buy LP from people at 1100-1200 and resale the items.

at one point I was making just stupid lucrative profits.

The point is, the profits per hour are evening out and I think the incursions might actually need a buff eventually.

Its going to get to the point where some people are going to say "I would rather run alone in my gank proof 600m isk Rattler then risk a 5 billion loss to trolls/afk logistics while at the same time trying to earn isk in an unreliable ISK source such as incursions".

The value of the Concord LP is plummeting, soon it will be worth 100-200 ISK per LP...

So yes, the Incursion rush is OVER, there is a new patch and people are getting tired, of running incursion, after incursion, after incursion.
Oddsodz
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#233 - 2011-12-04 05:12:52 UTC
If anything needs to be changed. It's the amount of LP you get from "vangard" sites. I think that needs a drop and "Assults" and "HQ" sites need a buff. Isk amount if fine. It takes time and effort to get a good fleet rolling. That should be rewarded.

One thing I will say is that the amount of high sec incersions systems active might need to be droped. 1 or 2 in high sec would do fine. It would have a knock on effect of players/fleets having to compeat in sites to make that ISK. Or even go to Low/Null where the risk is even highter. But the payout is better.

I Would like to see more low sec incursions. And I would really like to see some open up in "The Forge" low sec as I never seem to see any there at all. (can you tell I live here yet?)

100mill ISK per hour is doable. But it is borring and you have to fly very shinny Legions to do it. You also have to trust your fellow fleet memebers. That can have some funny storys in itself. Risk = reward. Think about it. When a fleet woth 10bill goes in to a site just to make 10 mill. It had better have a good chance of sucsese. ISK payout is fine in high sec. Remeber there is all sorts of nasty skullduggery that can get that 10bill fleet blown up.

So to sum up.

Vangard LP reward nuff would be good. (but not by much)
Assults and HQ site LP would be a good (not too much)
More low and null sec incersions systems would be good.
Less high sec incursions systems active would be good.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#234 - 2011-12-04 06:11:53 UTC
I do not see incursions as being too out-of-sync with the rest of eve, and they seem to be a pretty reasonable implementation of what CCP said they wanted to do.

Running incursions from time to time, I find them to be neither a 'fail' nor a veritable 'uber-goldmine' on the risk-reward spectrum. CCP have done a pretty good job on the balance there.

Of course there's always an element here akin to RW hip-pocket-politics and we've also got the fact that different people will have different views on the relative risk and rewards of different modes of gameplay. Unfortunately (IMO) some people, rather than moving on and trying something else when they don't like the risk/reward of an activity, prefer to bleat and moan and seek the universe to be changed to better suit their chosen activities.

The other side of incursions (sort of a risk, or 'cost', in the equation) is that they can get to be pretty tedious pretty quickly. I enjoy running them, pick and choose the gangs i run with (high skill sensible logis can usually afford to do that), and make a reasonable income ... but I can only do incursions for so long before the tedium sets in and I'm clamouring to head off and do something else for a while.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Dr Silkworth
#235 - 2011-12-06 01:40:08 UTC
JackStraw56 wrote:
Why are LP store items unprofitable right now is what you need to ask.

The price that the goods from the LP stores sell for is increasing, not decreasing, there is not a problem of too much supply of faction goods.

The reason prices are increasing on faction mods is that the tag prices are getting so high. That are many items that sell for less than the tags you need to make them would sell for.

So it doesn't seem like it's an oversupply of LP causing the issue here at all. It's a lack of supply of tags.

If the problem was an oversupply of LP (but still ample supply of tags) then we would be seeing drops in faction good prices across the board. This is not what we're seeing at all.


^This.

A new balance is coming into place, A lot of these tags come from missions. Faction missions from my brief look. Am I right? As tags go up, Missions may become as attractive as the incursions for those that like to loot tags. I'd always stayed away from tag missions cause of standing. I wanted flexibility to put up POS's but the fuel price has been high ever since PI. Maybe I should look at faction missions again.

The new loot all button is nice, of course we have the Noctis too. The game is changing and following a natural course that has not run all the way through its cycle. looks like a marketing opportunity actually. Another piece to consider is that RMT'ers play with tags. The Alliance RMT operations may be being cramped by the shortage. They can always change to trading loose limbed roes I guess.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#236 - 2011-12-06 03:25:14 UTC
Solomar Espersei wrote:
The only PVP element in 90% of the Vanguard grinding is learning how to use the broadcast window to target primaries and call for reps.

Meanwhile, back in those dull old Lv4 deadspaces, we continue to provoke fights, get shot, shoot back, etc. I would say that Lv 4s offer far more in the way of "players shooting at players" (note that calling this PVP really pisses some folks off, so I'll refrain) than you'll ever see in High Sec Vanguard farming. Don't get me wrong, I think the idea of Incursions and Live Events are great ideas, but Incursions really make Lv 4s redundant and they're (Vanguards) only dangerous to the clueless.

Sure, we could still mess with your pug fleets by screwing with your Logi chain, but that got boring after a while. Logistic ships just don't drop enough cool stuff to keep us "high sec piracy" types all that excited. I'm sure the response will be a very predictable "go to Null sec, invade Low sec Incursions" etc., but the devs have clearly "boxed out" the high sec predators from Incursions. For such a profitable enterprise, that seems to be completely out of step with the overarching themes of EVE.

Just one bastard's opinion.

PS After the nerf, please come back to Lv 4s. We really miss you guys.
Lol


You guys run more missions than anyone in the game, should be no shortage of targets whatsoever.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Esunisen
Les Tueurs de Killer
#237 - 2011-12-07 04:46:17 UTC
I went to an Incursion once (somewhere in Genesis, maybe Tar), lost 2 heavy T2 drones without being able to kill anything and then left.What?

Drone boats can't go there. Same for WH.
mingetek
Brainless in Space
#238 - 2011-12-07 06:32:06 UTC
Esunisen wrote:
I went to an Incursion once (somewhere in Genesis, maybe Tar), lost 2 heavy T2 drones without being able to kill anything and then left.What?

Drone boats can't go there. Same for WH.


100% bullshit.

sentry drones... as soon as they take damage pull em en. and relaaunch.
..