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Enough with the cloaky camper rubbish.

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Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#41 - 2013-11-04 14:46:01 UTC
Maybe people keep bringing it up because there is truth to what they are saying.

Cloaking mechanics heavily favor the aggressor when coupled with hot drop mechanics (which ruined the game a long time ago IMO)

Cloak's requiring the use of fuel, capacitor, or an ability to probe them down over time if they are sat at zero or some similar idea are actually decent suggestions

cloaks should be powerful, but i shouldn't be able to cloak forever in one spot and collect intel forever.
wagashi
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#42 - 2013-11-05 04:32:45 UTC
Really?

All mechanics favor the aggressor when you ratting, because your ratting(or mining). Now matter what you want to say this whole thread is about someone attacking 'you' while 'you' are not in 'your' PVP ship. All the nerf cloaking threads are begging CCP to remove the ability of cloaked ships to attack on their terms and force the combat to begin when the residents are ready to do so. However nerf crowd still wants the local to give them perfect intel so they can avoid the invader with their PVE ship. Thats not balance that happy horse crap.

Lets point to another thing here, Jump range. Most nullseccers live in regions that completely consumed by their own alliance or alliances that blue to them. There are good chunk of these that so distant from neighboring regions that is impossible for carrier let alone a titan or black ops bridge reach. So if they're 10 dudes rolling about in black ops ships in your region and no one reports it intel well then your coalition sucks.
Baaldor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#43 - 2013-11-05 19:50:46 UTC
Chandaris wrote:
Maybe people keep bringing it up because there is truth to what they are saying.


Not really, it is folk that generally afraid of the dark and and the unknown.

Chandaris wrote:
Cloaking mechanics heavily favor the aggressor when coupled with hot drop mechanics (which ruined the game a long time ago IMO)


Yes that is your opinion and puking an opinion based on your own fears, is not only fantastic, but you have just gave EvE more credibility.

What game can you play that allows other players to screw with the person with in the game and mind **** them out of game.

Chandaris wrote:
Cloak's requiring the use of fuel, capacitor, or an ability to probe them down over time if they are sat at zero or some similar idea are actually decent suggestions


Fine allow the cloaker fire when cloaked. Because as you know the person can not attack nor defend.

Chandaris wrote:
cloaks should be powerful, but i shouldn't be able to cloak forever in one spot and collect intel forever.


Right, when you dock, you get no local.
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#44 - 2013-11-05 20:04:46 UTC
Quote:
Not really, it is folk that generally afraid of the dark and and the unknown.


It's not really the unknown is it. They're in local, they're not docked. It's fairly obvious what they are.

Quote:
Yes that is your opinion and puking an opinion based on your own fears, is not only fantastic, but you have just gave EvE more credibility.

What game can you play that allows other players to screw with the person with in the game and mind **** them out of game.


TBH, Eve could use a little bit less of that. Yea yea, the harshness of lowsec, and being able to grief other players all day err day. I've always been of the firm belief that a lot of these mechanics (easy highsec ganking, afk cloaking, blob/hotdropping) cause the game to shed a lot more players than it ultimately gains. Toning down some of these mechanics would not necessarily 'undo eve'.

Quote:
Fine allow the cloaker fire when cloaked. Because as you know the person can not attack nor defend.


This statement makes no gramatical sense.

Quote:
Right, when you dock, you get no local.


Local should have been obliterated a long, long time ago and replaced with an actual useful d-scan mechanic. People popping through wormholes or covert cynoing in appearing in local makes no real sense, as local is supposed to be an indication of who jumped in/out via gates, reported to capsuleers from the omni-present traffic control. A change in local mechanics, and the elimination of it in some or all of sov space would drive a lot more compelling gameplay tbh, but, I'm getting pretty far off topic so I will shut up now.

Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2013-11-08 06:12:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jacque Custeau
The blops hotdrops favor the attacker because it allows a whole gang to drop on one person in the blink of an eye. Every enemy ship is a potential cloaked stargate in your system. You can even d-scan while cloaked, so you do not have to show you hand until it is too late for anyone else to do anything about it.

Anyway, I don't think there should be any activity in the game where you can walk away from the screen hours at a time and be completely safe, and at no cost. Even a POS consumes fuel, and that forcefield that goes up is not free. EvE had 'safespots' and then introduced probing, and then introduced cloaking. But cloaky ships were scouts and didn't pack much punch. Things have changed, and cloaks are now the new 'safespots' that people despised so much.

Just like ratter/miner has local and intel channels and what not, the cloaker/agressor has all manner of map stats to pick his targets. He can open the in game map or dotlan and see pirate deaths in the last hour, number of ships in space, number of jumps per hour...a real treasure trove of intel. If local goes, map statistics and exports to sites like dotlan would have to go as well. But we already have that, its called wormhole space.

As for ratting in cheap ships and large groups, as a method of countering the cov ops cloak, its a horrible idea that has never actually been tried by anyone who suggests it. the cov ops gang will simply receive the new intel and adjust their numbers and loadouts in seconds. I have seen 8 bombers drop on a single procurer. And why not? Fuel is cheap, bridging back and forth is easy, no risk and you get to ruin someone else's gameplay, which is the real goal here.

PLEX prices are seasonal. This time last year they were around this price and they kept climbing into the xmas shopping season before they returned to normal. I think we should be able to argue against a game mechanic on its own merits/faults without talking about it "killing eve". As for Star Citizen, I grew up on WC games and would give anything Chris Roberts put out a try.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#46 - 2013-11-08 16:33:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Sura Sadiva
Hotdrops favor the aggressor. And this is why they're a good thing.

It's a partial balance to a system that allow to lock and farm whole null sec areas and make them safer than HS. This is not due to any players skill or effort but simply due to free intel from local, mechanics that prompt massive blue conglomerates, blobbing, the lame Dominion sovreignity system and other mechanics.

Everything is geared to favor annd make trivial the defence. Hotdrops is a mere antidote to a total stagnation. Far not enough, but better thann nothing.

CCP see this stagnation is bad for the general gameplay, and the fact they're adding more covert ops ships and soon overhauling black ops should give a clue about the trend.
Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2013-11-09 11:56:54 UTC
I don't think any discussion can occur about intel from local without mentioning the map intel. A person looking for victims can pull up development indices, pirate kills per hour, number of pilots in space...etc and all manner of information so that he knows exactly where to go to find a victim. And the local channel benefits both the attacker and the resident. The attacker does not waste time looking around in a system when he is the only one in local.

So using the local intel as justification for why afk cloaking just doesn't hold water.
Sausage Master
PERMIT REGULATORS
#48 - 2013-11-09 12:13:32 UTC
Grace Ishukone wrote:

The cloaky camper issue has become so bad .


I run deliveries into all sorts of places, low & nul etc. I have never encountered the cloaky camper issue before? Where is it happening? It may just be a problem in your local area?
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#49 - 2013-11-09 17:14:49 UTC
Jacque Custeau wrote:
And the local channel benefits both the attacker and the resident. The attacker does not waste time looking around in a system when he is the only one in local.

So using the local intel as justification for why afk cloaking just doesn't hold water.



Good. So would you simply removing local and this would be balanced? Both, attacker/ganker and ratter/miner benefit of it in the same way? So could be just removed and we had the same balance as now. Are you sure?

Fact is: currently is possible to lock and secure large part of null sec. Not even in HS such level of safety this is possible. And this is not due to some effort or active gameplay, patroling, scouting, intercepting and destorying enemies... is done simply due to passive and skilless mechanics based on avoiding any risk and any gameplay.

Parts of the game locked in such way are not healthy for the general EVE gameplay. This needs to be changed.

People developed and use tactics like AFK cloacking and hotdrops simply becuase is the only way to bring some risk and some action in these areas. Is still far not enough.
Give them more option to be a threat ffor you and you'll see less hotdrops.
Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2013-11-10 14:07:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jacque Custeau
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Jacque Custeau wrote:
And the local channel benefits both the attacker and the resident. The attacker does not waste time looking around in a system when he is the only one in local.

So using the local intel as justification for why afk cloaking just doesn't hold water.



Good. So would you simply removing local and this would be balanced? Both, attacker/ganker and ratter/miner benefit of it in the same way? So could be just removed and we had the same balance as now. Are you sure?



Once again we are talking about afk cloaking, its related to hotdropping but not the same thing. And you cannot talk about local and map intel tools separately. If local channel is being used as justification for cloaking, especially afk cloaking, then remove it. But also remove the map tools. No longer will hot droppers see development indices, true sec, jumps per hour, pirates killed per hour, or any statistics regarding which would be a better place to find victims. They want to find someone, they jump in and scan. Then we can get rid of cloaking.

The afk cloaker crowd keep pointing to local, but ignore the huge amounts of intel ccp gives them in the map tool or through dotlan. Hot dropping will exist as long as there are cynos in the game, but no one should be able to cloak up and go afk and be completely safe. Safer than being in empire, safer than being in low sec. What is the hotdropper risking? All the while pretending to be tough guys.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#51 - 2013-11-11 09:03:04 UTC
Grace Ishukone wrote:
Title says it all.

The cloaky camper issue has become so bad that there are entire constellations where most people have simply walked away. And they don't go to another constellation of nullsec, or even highsec - they have gone to War Thunder, WoW, and the Star Citizen beta.

EVE Online is being strangled by campy cloakers shutting down systems, and making it impossible to play. Add to that if you do play, you get hotdropped and killed by 5 to 10 black ops battleships, or if you have Pandemic, 2 or 3 Nyx. That would be fine, except having ganked they warp off to safes, cloak, then wait cloaked until they can get a new gank, or jump out.

There is no fight, no epic battle, just a gank then nothing more until another player undocks, gets ganked, and says screw this I'm playing a game that I can *play* not one that consists of everyone afk camping for weeks.

Solutions.

(1) Make cloaking devices require Heavy Water as fuel, which depletes at 25 per minute. Use your cloak wisely, it will run out.

(2) Make it that only Stealth Bombers can recloak while an engagement timer is active. Yes, I mean the 15 minute one. If you jump in your Nyx to gank someone, then they can scan you down and actually fight. PvP might happen, rather than gank and go.

(3) this is actually the most commonly discussed in our null alliance: we all go to Star Citizen the day it launches on the basis that the Devs have painted themselves into a gameplay corner now, such that in effect the Rogue Sneak Attack from World of Warcraft summarizes the state of 'pvp' in EVE Online, and things are simply going to go downhill from here on out for EVE. Do I ant that? No, not really. I like EVE. But I think there is a massive problem with instant alpha damage and hotdrop insta kills.

And don't get me wrong, I own two Redeemers, and mercilessly butcher people too. I just think there is neither challenge nor skill required for a lot of this game now, and the changes (1) and (2) above would improve things a lot.

And if nothing changes ... well there is always Star Citizen. Or Darkfall Unholy Wars, that has better pvp than EVE now, or at least will after the next massive balance patch. So yes CCP, shape up or watch this game wither and die.

And CSM ... do your job. The current suggestions from CCP are going down the track of increased alpha, shorter fight times. All that means is fewer players, because everyone stays in their POS / stations and logs out when you see an enemy scout, because you know the hotdrop is right behind them. With hindsight, adding instant travel was a massive mistake. But the map is so bad in EVE that it was needed ... so EVE is currently in this horrible design mess. At least the cloaking issue can be fixed by the simple and game-consistent mechanic of requiring a cloak to use fuel. That one simple change would make covert pilots need to use their brains ... and if afk all day, would lead to their deaths.


Lol - people like you will get ganked and camped no matter in which game you flee...
especially the ones thinking they will find a easier life in Star citizen...(maybe in the solo-player version)

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Ossirrus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2013-11-12 08:10:21 UTC
Grace Ishukone wrote:
Title says it all.



I completely agree Local has been OP for FAR TOO LONG. We must end afk cloaking now! Take away local listings and afk cloakers will never bother us again!!!! Those pesky at keyboard cloakers might be bad though.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2013-11-12 17:34:06 UTC
Wow, OP is dense as ****. lol

I'm sorry, but so much faulty logic,
based on faulty assumptions which are mistaken as facts
and that bias... holy ****, dense as ****!
Dunpeal Hunter
Zervas Aeronautics
#54 - 2013-11-18 15:29:29 UTC
I am pretty sure its been said or suggested already, but i am personaly like 90% sure that CCP will come with a module in the near future like the siphon unit, or the refit module that will make it possible to disrupt cloaking modules within a certain area.

They said themselves that the 4 modules coming out tomorrow will only be the beginning, and that they have plans to add more.

I dont know if this is important or not, but i have chickens.....
Lenroc Elisav
Lenny'S TAX evasion 101
#55 - 2013-11-19 13:40:39 UTC
I guess CCP point of view on the matter is made pretty obvious by the design choice of allowing covop cynos through the new Mobile Cynosural Inhibitor field. I don't know why null sec systems still have local. Make DScan pick something like "Unidentified energy source/spike/surge" and auto-repeat at 10-15 seconds interval and get rid of local in null already. Deep null miners, that watch porn while getting rich solo ganking asteroids w/o no risk, are screwing the market for the rest of us :p.
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#56 - 2013-12-13 16:33:41 UTC
Well I think ccp is tired of eve but that's just me, why else would you creat a module to do something than nerf it than make it obsolete by making a module that completely counter acts it. Tengu used to get 100kms with heavy missiles so the nerf them to not even worth using in missions. Way back when the hit a nerf on warp stabs than made the hic that is awesome but shouldn't stop something with 8 stab but does easily. They want the universe to be chaos, they advertise for new players with no real environment for them and give their support.

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2014-01-20 03:56:58 UTC
AFK cloakers can't harm you because they are AFK. I don't see the problem.

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Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#58 - 2014-01-21 09:45:39 UTC
At OP, The only reason you whine about cloakies is because its blatantly obvious that you're just a bug under a boot and all your skills are just irrelevant, while it is only somewhat obvious without cloak.
If you want a PVP fight, attack income sources. Then they'll turn up in their thousands.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#59 - 2014-01-21 11:46:27 UTC
If cloakers in your system are preventing you from doing whatever you wanted to do, its because what you wanted to do was wrong in the first place.

Null sec is a harsh place where doing stuff you can only do with an empty local, like ratting in a super carrier (Roll) should be the exception driven by an occasional player-opportunism, not the norm.
Thus, afk cloaking is just putting back some form of balance into less-populated areas of null sec.

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Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#60 - 2014-01-23 20:21:35 UTC
Don't ruin cloaking for us wormholers because some vaginally inclined nullbears are scared of the cloaky boogeyman.

No trolling please