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Warfare & Tactics

 
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FW - Kill the Tier System
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Sleban
Pole Shift Incorporated
#121 - 2013-09-23 18:58:32 UTC
A quick update to this, because I know you're all fascinated by my ramblings on how the LP points for PvP are calculated.

Thankfully a kill at Tier 2 has shown me exactly what it is based on. It's actually quite simple, thankfully.

Pend Insurance market value of the ship / 10,000 * tier factor. No mods or cargo factored into the equation. Both have been removed.

Pend think a Republic Fleet Firetail is worth 14,190,000 isk at the moment. So:

At Tier 2, you get 1,419 LPs.

At Tier 5, you get 3,193 LPs.

It's quite precise.

So even at Tier 5, an incursus kill will gain you about 113 points, irrespective of whether it is unmodded or brimming with officer gear.

So - anyone want to lend me 200bn isk, and then sell me some rare Tournament ships at, say, 10bn a pop? No? I'll get my coat...
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2013-09-23 20:54:14 UTC
I am actually not sure it is that simple, the kill mails show two distinct values Total Worth and Pend Insurance Estimate, and this is always lower and is I believe the market value of the destroyed items including the ship, rigs, modules, cargo with the insurance payout probably subtracted at maximum level.

Examples:

Hookbill 1 (tech 2 rigs)

Total Worth 73,868,537 ISK
Pend Insurance Estimate 50,839,905 ISK
LP Points Awarded 5083 LP (would multiply to 11437 LP at tier 5)
Actual LP Recieved 2,541 LP (tier 1)


Hookbill 2 (around seven days later)

Total Worth 39,246,266 ISK
Pend Insurance Estimate 17,215,548 ISK
Loyalty Points Awarded 1721 LP (would multiply to 3872 LP at tier 5)
Actual LP Recieved 860 LP (tier 1)


What we see from the two Hookbills, other than the fact that people put silly expensive modules on them, is that there is a stark difference in values and the LP payouts and that must come from modules and cargo.

I still feel this mechanic can no longer be exploited for gain and that removing tiers for the PVP LP rewards and setting them to a level that is less than but more comparative to orbiting timers in stabbed frigates is a good idea.
Sleban
Pole Shift Incorporated
#123 - 2013-09-25 14:24:38 UTC
If you are right, then the calculation must be value of ship and modules. I can't see how cargo can be included, otherwise the exploit remains in place - people can artificially mega-boost the value of obscure items on the market, carry them in cheap ships, pop them for the insurance value and the LPs. It HAS been fixed, right? This is the exploit that people were abusing earlier?
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#124 - 2013-09-28 19:07:27 UTC
That depends how they fixed it. I do not believe they adjusted the LP formula at that time (although I suspect it may have changed since with the bounty changes as the mechanic seems based on the same things).

It was a market exploit that used LP to pay out and it is the Market exploit that was fixed.
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/72972

Quote:

Last week we manually adjusted some of the pricing as we stated in our news item. We then introduced some changes in order to prevent the disparity between actual cost and "Average Price" in items. For the near future this should no longer be an issue but we are monitoring and we will make further changes to this system.
Ivan Krividus
Cold Lazarus Inc
The-Expanse
#125 - 2013-09-29 00:48:59 UTC
Or maybe the amarr aren't as high and mighty as they proclaim to be without their minnie slaves.

Trust in the rust!
God's Apples
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#126 - 2013-10-01 23:00:47 UTC
Ivan Krividus wrote:
Or maybe the amarr aren't as high and mighty as they proclaim to be without their minnie slaves.

Trust in the rust!


Nomad friend but scorch OP amarr victor.

"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX
Rabid Disconnection
Prism's Keepers
#127 - 2013-11-18 07:16:27 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:


It doesn't balance out. Navy Omens sell for twice as much as SFI's but you have to work six times as long to earn them. The math isn't in the underdog's favor.


Sorry for resurrecting a thread, did not notice the reply until now.

It does balance when you have patience, grind the LP when the faction is high tier, cash out after they have sit low for a few weeks and those LP are worth most.
George Gouillot
MASS
Pandemic Horde
#128 - 2013-11-18 14:36:06 UTC  |  Edited by: George Gouillot
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Sleban wrote:
If you earned a lot more LP for killing squid, particularly in plexes, things might also be different and get more people into PvP, which would make life harder for the farmers.


Has been already tried. You already learn LP for killing people, if you increase even only slightly that quote this lead to massive exploits. Happened already and CCP had to run to fix it.
Giving LP (aka creating ISK) for kills is plainy wrong as concept (this is why didnt work when tried), in EVE food chain the main role of PVP kills is to destroy assetts and ISKs, not to magically create new wealth.

FW works fine as it is; of course there's always rooms for adjustments and improvements but all your "ideas" are basically a global rewrite that would transform it in an arena game, not even part of EVE gameplay and standards.


Not necessarily - as long as the LP equivalent stays significantly lower than the value of the destroyed ship/pod minus cargo value plus insurance Raising the LP payout for kills and parallely reducing the LP for orbiting the beacon would make PvP more rewarding and would be a positive adjustment.

Farmers are not a problem, they are just an annoyance. You can make it less annoying by simply disabling stabs inside a plex, you still don't get a worthy fight but at least a kill ...

But I agree, overall FW works fine as is.
Faife
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#129 - 2013-11-18 16:24:33 UTC
Hello I am Gallente please remove tier system because no new players to join my bad FW guild because there is so much more fun and money in Caldari side.

Also please ban TEST they said mean things to me in local chat. EVE should not be a place where you can say mean things.
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2013-11-18 17:25:01 UTC
Faife wrote:
Hello I am Gallente please remove tier system because no new players to join my bad FW guild because there is so much more fun and money in Caldari side.

Also please ban TEST they said mean things to me in local chat. EVE should not be a place where you can say mean things.


That isn't fair. Gallente were complaining about the tier system even when they were "winning" the sov war. Also, please learn that there is no "winning" FW. The system was designed to be a never ending war with it being almost impossible to "win" unless the other side gives up and stops playing.

Also, most Gallente dislike TEST for the rampant racism and generally bigoted culture that displays itself in local. I guess its just a different way of looking at the game and where different people draw the line of "it is just a game". I'm a outlaw and do very mean things to other peoples' in game character, but remain courteous to the person behind the keyboard except for insulting their EVE piloting skill. To answer your question, yes EVE should not be a place where saying "mean things" that would get you fired from a real life job in about 10 seconds should be allowed.

.
Xiderpunk
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#131 - 2013-11-18 17:35:27 UTC
Faife wrote:
Hello I am Gallente please remove tier system because no new players to join my bad FW guild because there is so much more fun and money in Caldari side.

Also please ban TEST they said mean things to me in local chat. EVE should not be a place where you can say mean things.


Really Faife quit with these stupid threads, you are just a child (as it is very evident in your postings) but these constant boasts and hostility paint you as a very angry child. All you are saying over and over is: "naaa naaa we have more than you" which is best left in infant school. Your aim of course is to try to make others feel as miserable as you are, what ever the cause of that misery is a forum is not the appropriate remedy, talk to a councillor.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#132 - 2013-11-19 01:45:51 UTC
Faife wrote:
Hello I am Gallente please remove tier system because no new players to join my bad FW guild because there is so much more fun and money in Caldari side.

Also please ban TEST they said mean things to me in local chat. EVE should not be a place where you can say mean things.


Whats wrong fella? Getting tired of us not complaining so you roleplay some for yourself?

Anyways, while you try and make people rage with local spam ill keep making them actually rage by blowing up their ships ( see you soon chessur o/ ).
Castnicke Rinah
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#133 - 2013-11-19 04:38:42 UTC
Stop feeding the troll...
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#134 - 2013-11-19 16:09:52 UTC
Hey CCP. I don't like to lose, and right now I'm losing FW. So please remove the metric that measures "losing" and "winning" - if I can't win, I'd rather just remove the scoring completely.

Thank you.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist