Player Features and Ideas Discussion

If I had a nickel for ever Raven HAM setup… Oh wait, no ones uses HAMs on battleships because they're totally useless. So there's "not OP" and then there's "pointless"; your suggestion for RHMLs falls under the latter. The proposal for RHMLs is fine (including 40-second reload time), so stop trying to cloud the issues with RLMLs by lumping them in with RHMLs. RHML = new weapon system, so it's not breaking anything. RLML = different story.

Again, you don't have a clue how RHMLs operate. Even with the first iteration they didn't receive any explosion radius, explosion velocity or missile velocity bonuses. This hasn't changed with the second version. And RHMLs aren't "Op". They have a range of around 60km (less with Precision or Fury) On a Raven Navy Issue cruise missiles receive a 25% explosion radius bonus, which puts them fairly close to heavy missiles in terms of damage application. Aside from the huge range difference, there's also the issue of speed - and again, they're at a huge disadvantage compared to cruise missiles. So yes, for approximately 45-50 seconds they'll do some fairly decent DPS and then be offline for reloading. Which is why you probably won't see very many native RHML battleship setups and they'll probably be more of a mix of cruise-RHML or torpedo-RHML.

I'm not going to get into your numbers with RLMLs because I think given the choice of the changes in Rubicon or switching the old system back to rockets, most would probably take the new design. And if I wanted a short-ranged missile system with high rate of fire, decent damage application and large ammunition capacity - HAMs already fit the bill.

So yes, it's a horrible idea for RHMLs. Perhaps less so for RLMLs, but only marginally.

The loss of SP training should be interesting to reconcile with your idea. Because everyone trains to Light Missile-V and Light Missile Specialization-V so that they can use light missile launchers... Also, does this mean that in order to use RLMLs you have to train both Light Missile and Rocket skills? (Light Missile to get the rate of fire bonuses and Rockets for everything else) Crazy indeed!

H*ll yes.

Not sure where you get 1/5th the range, but what's the actual effective range of cruise missiles without sensor boosters or amplifiers? For all intents and purposes around 100k, which is what RHMLs will hit to with a few hydraulic rigs. 1200 DPS isn't anything to sneeze at, either.

You fly a Harpy and you're lecturing me on missile use for PvP? Oh man, that's priceless. Do you even have any PvP kills with missiles? (bombs don't count) Sorry, didn't mean to get sidetracked with PvP. You were saying...?

Right - your idea for rebalancing. Truly great ideas need not worry with trivial concerns like invaliding entire skills or requiring new ones (never mind logistics, etc.). There's untold genius in having thousands of players instantly unable to use RLMLs until they start learning a new set of skills on November 19.

I can certainly understand your misgivings with the new RLMLs and RHMLs. That Harpy of yours is going to be pretty vulnerable preying on battleships starting on Tuesday. Especially those new Golems. The way to PvP (as you see it) is to simply nerf any effective counter to small gangs into the ground. Yeah, don't think that's gonna happen. I may have misjudged Rise and not given him entirely enough credit for these changes. They've now gone from "interesting" to "intriguing".

The only thing I know for certain is that I'm glad an anti-missile proponent such as yourself isn't at the helm with respect to missile changes. Troll indeed...

Please make sure you understand everything you're talking about before you mock someone else for it.

Don't just consider heated scrams. Consider linked heated scrams. An Incursus (I picked a random frigate) can scram out to 10.8k (13.4k with links). Unbonused rockets go to a max of 10.1k and Javelins reach out to 15k at the cost of less damage.

If we start talking about purpose-built ships, a Rubicon Keres will heated-scram out to 18.9k (23.4k with links), where your rapid rockets can't hope to touch them. An Arazu reaches 21k (26k with links) which puts them safely out of HAM range.

For reference, this is with all relevant skills to 5 and the linking assistance of a Loki using a T2 Interdiction link.

You also don't seem to be understanding the "invalidation of skills" business that's being discussed. RLMLs require the skill Light Missiles to be trained. Rockets (the ammo) require the skill Rockets to be trained. You're suggesting we start making RLMLs use an ammo with inferior range (and in the case of HAMs, even worse application than HMs) that people may not have even trained simply to prevent a 40-second reload time.

Your response to these concerns is "This is EVE, if you don't like then too ******* bad, **** off."

What a truly spectacular reply. If any CCP dev were to respond like that, I'm sure he'd be promoted to Chief of Operations on the spot. /sarcasm

I don't know what kind of drugs you're on that make you think any of this is a good idea, but I bet you'd be filthy rich if you'd stop using them and start selling them.

By the way, now you can feel free to cut off your hands and stop posting.

Basically this.

Who on here has actually tried using these on the test server? Frankly, i'm sold on the RHML, haven't tried the RLML but figure will work the same way on certain hulls.

The RHML are beast.. every HAC i've come across i've melted. I've killed vigilants, other BS.. lots of things that might be considered "tanky", a majority of them before the first reload cycle.

If you're semi-competent at fitting, try them out.. I fly them like using hams, Scram/web and i have 1 rigor rig. I burned down a plated deimos with 7 shots leftover, using meta 4 RHML. Plus my missiles skills are not that good, t2 launchers/skills, i could be close to 1k dps.

The issues i have with them, is that RoF ships don't fully take advantage of the new module. Since its just shooting the module faster, instead of for more damage. Hulls that have a %dmg bonus are best. Perhaps on next update pass they could get RoF bonus for standard missiles and reload reduction bonus on the rapids? That way they don't get screwed completely. So it would read:

5% reduction in launcher rate of fire for standard launchers

Or

5% reduction in reload of Rapid launchers

That would bring reload down to 30s.. maybe not drastic, but perhaps a bit more workable for the smaller, kitier ships. 40s is a bit long, but i've been able to manage it for the most part. Having an active tank helps a lot.

I honestly think these will get nerfed in the future. I can shred any HAC or cruiser (not sure about t3's) almost effortlessly. The damage selection issue is a bit aggravating when i came across some HACs, but normally i'll engage during the reload, and work on setting up my EWAR/cap warfare, that way once i do attack, they have poor cap and can't rep through it as easily.

I like the idea others have mentioned for ammo swaps. It changes the charge type, but doesn't reload the amount of charges.

In terms of lore, or how to explain that effect, maybe create a missile dedicated to the launcher, call it the "Chameleon" or something. Basically, just a missile type that has all 4 damage types in it, but the computer selects the damage type before launching. So when you need to change the damage type, you can "load" it with the standard 10s reload, but changes damage type, not charge amount.

So if you have 15 missiles left, and you have mjolnirs loaded, and a vaga comes on grid, you can change to scourge/nova in 10s, but still have 15 missiles left but the correct dmg type.

This would also help keep storage space better used for things like cap boosters for leaning towards a more active tank style, instead of having a mix up of different ammo. Might be a minor tweak that could be done to at least give some minor benefits to the launcher/play style.

To fix all the problems just add shield strength and armor thickness. Larger ships have thicker armor and shields reducing damage from smaller weapon platforms making it a disadvantage to use rlml vs a cruiser or bigger. The dps of a ship could be even between rlml and hml then. This would make ship Y deal X dps with either rlml or hml but applied damage from rlml to cruisers and up would be reduced. Problem solved.

That would also be completely counter to CCP's belief that larger ships should be vulnerable to smaller ones, as it would penalize using cruiser-sized weapons on a cruiser to fight a battleship or battleship-sized weapons to fight a dread.

Eh? Shoot a MWDing inty and get back to me.

Furthermore a cerb with todays RLML is only doing ~400-420 DPS (ish, dont remember if I had implants loaded).

That's just not a big number in today's game.