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A Statement About Mining
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Kate stark
#21 - 2013-11-15 06:18:58 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Mining your own minerals does not make them free. If you believe that it does, please stop drinking window cleaner.


you're wrong.

minerals you mine ARE free.
however that's not the same as minerals you mine don't have any value associated with them.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Kate stark
#22 - 2013-11-15 06:20:25 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Anti-social Tendencies wrote:
Not to be too harsh, but can people really be so stupid as to not understand the concept of "opportunity cost"?

The OP is correct and more new industrialists should pay attention to this.




So you are saying you are fine with the stoppage of all mining, thus no further ship manufacturing being done, and thus eventually no game.

...or am I misunderstanding something.


except that's bollocks and you know it, look at serenity where practically nobody mines.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#23 - 2013-11-15 09:59:26 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Anti-social Tendencies wrote:
Not to be too harsh, but can people really be so stupid as to not understand the concept of "opportunity cost"?

The OP is correct and more new industrialists should pay attention to this.




So you are saying you are fine with the stoppage of all mining, thus no further ship manufacturing being done, and thus eventually no game.

...or am I misunderstanding something.


My noctis is my miner, I shall not want.
It maketh me warp to wreck fields, it leadeth me to the recyclable modules.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#24 - 2013-11-15 12:27:24 UTC
Ljuvi wrote:
Depends on the player. For some people their time is not worth that much.
Just so you know, what you think your time is worth is utterly beside the point.
Someone who mines and sells minerals is not saying "these are free", they are simply generating income.
The ones that think they are free are the ones who build things.

For this example trit is a 4.7 isk/unit.
Say you make an item for 10000 trit, that item is worth 47000 isk. A MIMAF will say, that's 47000 profit from manufacutre. This means they may undercut someone already sellign at 47000 to say 44000, stating "i'm making 44000 profit". But they are not. They are making 3000 loss, since they could have sold their minerals for 47000.

Thats pretty much whaat people are meaning when they say minerals are not free. And they point it out because it's annoying to be undercut by a moron that can't figure out he's making a loss, making you have to wait for his orders to clear before you can start making a profit (tax usually means you cant buy out someone that's undercutting you by a fraction)

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Fatima Kara-Khanid
#25 - 2013-11-15 14:07:43 UTC
Everything is relative.

You may state that, and others may state that it deppends on how one values one's time.

But you have also the thing that some people leave a character mining and actually do something else at the same time, ergo not using time to evaluate the ore mined.

You can go on and on over this same issue everytime, but at the end of the day, it is what this forum is full of: Concept Warfare.

Concept Warfare: Argument made by changing the concept the words used actually refeer to. Often used with: Stick Figure Argument - Red Herring - Ad Hominen - Reductio ad Absurdum
Snagletooth Johnson
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-11-17 10:45:38 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Ljuvi wrote:
Depends on the player. For some people their time is not worth that much.
Just so you know, what you think your time is worth is utterly beside the point.
Someone who mines and sells minerals is not saying "these are free", they are simply generating income.
The ones that think they are free are the ones who build things.

For this example trit is a 4.7 isk/unit.
Say you make an item for 10000 trit, that item is worth 47000 isk. A MIMAF will say, that's 47000 profit from manufacutre. This means they may undercut someone already sellign at 47000 to say 44000, stating "i'm making 44000 profit". But they are not. They are making 3000 loss, since they could have sold their minerals for 47000.

Thats pretty much whaat people are meaning when they say minerals are not free. And they point it out because it's annoying to be undercut by a moron that can't figure out he's making a loss, making you have to wait for his orders to clear before you can start making a profit (tax usually means you cant buy out someone that's undercutting you by a fraction)

Or, you could off you're lazy ship spinning ass and go mine some free ore and undercut him by 43999, and make 43999 profit, instead of buying his free ore, and only making 3000 profit.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#27 - 2013-11-17 12:08:18 UTC
Tauranon wrote:

It maketh me warp to wreck fields, it leadeth me to the recyclable modules.



That amount of minerals is a drop in the bucket. Would take you years to get the Trit for a cap ship.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#28 - 2013-11-17 23:03:39 UTC
Snagletooth Johnson wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Ljuvi wrote:
Depends on the player. For some people their time is not worth that much.
Just so you know, what you think your time is worth is utterly beside the point.
Someone who mines and sells minerals is not saying "these are free", they are simply generating income.
The ones that think they are free are the ones who build things.

For this example trit is a 4.7 isk/unit.
Say you make an item for 10000 trit, that item is worth 47000 isk. A MIMAF will say, that's 47000 profit from manufacutre. This means they may undercut someone already sellign at 47000 to say 44000, stating "i'm making 44000 profit". But they are not. They are making 3000 loss, since they could have sold their minerals for 47000.

Thats pretty much whaat people are meaning when they say minerals are not free. And they point it out because it's annoying to be undercut by a moron that can't figure out he's making a loss, making you have to wait for his orders to clear before you can start making a profit (tax usually means you cant buy out someone that's undercutting you by a fraction)

Or, you could off you're lazy ship spinning ass and go mine some free ore and undercut him by 43999, and make 43999 profit, instead of buying his free ore, and only making 3000 profit.
lol, I think you miss the point. Why would I mine ore, refine it, turn it into an item, then sell that item for less than what I could have sold the refined minerals for?
In the same way, if you consider your minerals "free" then don't calc them into your manufacture costs, you can easily be selling an item for less than you could sell the minerals for, thus their value is the value you could sell them for.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Anders Madeveda
Usque Ad Mortem
#29 - 2013-11-18 05:38:26 UTC
Not sure of the point of the thread...no mining your own minerals does not make them free yet the assumption is that all undercutting on the markets is done by people who don't understand the concept of "Opportunity Cost" when in fact the market is a form of PVP and sometimes you strive to starve the competition in the way a Cap Drain does in traditional PVP. If I constantly undercut you then I weaken your resolve to compete in that aspect of the market...thereby when you leave I can raise my price. Quit trying to instruct people on how to play the game, if someone wants to Mine/Manufacture/Sell their product at the mineral cost no amount of macro economic theory is going to stop them.
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2013-11-19 00:17:03 UTC
Batelle wrote:
was this thread really necessary?



On the one hand, people are stupid and think their time is worthless.

On the other hand, stupid people aren't likely to read the forums for advice.
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2013-11-19 03:27:48 UTC
LOL this thread is golden. Some have taken econ 101. Let the others do their things and keep in mind they are your direct competition.Bear
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