Wormholes

You did the right thing. Any time you see multiple guardians and T3s - just pos up. If they can't field a fun fleet to fight then forget them. Even if I can get an even fight out of one of those fleets - I pass. Eventually.... maybe..... someday it will dawn on the T3 mantra gang that their fleet is the reason they have no fun. Then mayhaps they will shed their risk averse blankies and change their fleet up. Honestly, I don't think most of them will be able to transition to a different fleet comp until someone spoon feeds them the next I WIN button.

That being said, adhoc is a pretty cool group of guys. Risk averse has never come to mind when dealing with them. I've seen them throw down more than once then the obvious odds are against them.

Fighting the 3-5 guardian and kitchen sink T3 gang just isn't fun. You pound away on a pile of bricks for hours and finally someone tips the scale or else one side withdraws. It's a boring fleet to fight. There is no skill involved in beating it - you either out dps their logi or you don't. [don't bother with posting all the counters, we've all heard them a zillion times] It's a low skill, high tank lumbering blob of UNFUN. Do your part to make wh space fun again - ignore the numpty noobs in those fleets. They will change or wither and pass on.

Thanks for your input.

Both valid points and basically the basis of everything I did while solo pvping in lowsec. No risk, no fun, and get into as many fights as possible.

It appears that it is one thing to do this when soloing and another when commanding a fleet. And while I still feel that retreating from you was tactically the right decision, I really wish that I had decided otherwise just for the fun of it.

Ah well. A similar situation will come again sooner or later.

All the best, see you out there.

V

futurecorp flys the mega t3 glory fleet, so of course they tell you to ignore me and engage. As always they go on to tell you what you do if you encounter their fleet and [OMG] don't have the personnel to engage. It's nice of them to instruct you how to work around what they are doing. This same sad diatribe has been lingering here in this forum for months. When giving instructions on how to work around ones self it my occur to the instructor that a certain amount of introspection may be in order.

mega T3 uber fleet of blue ball wh pvp is dead fleet - ignore them
arranged fight at the sun - go for it, unless you have something better to do [such as take your little sister to the prom]

Axloth - it's a boring one dimensional fleet. It's built to wade in, absorb damage and slowly grind the other side down and kill it. It's practical uses are system invasions, grinding down pos defenses or dropping into an escalation and ganking the caps.

What it is not: It's NOT a fun pvp fleet. It's not fun to fly in it or against it. I've done both. It's just not fun. It's for killing things without the possibility of losing. That is all it's for. When you mega uber [blah blah] fleet guys finally realize you are the ones sucking all the fun out of wh - only then will things come around and be fun again. Here's an idea for you. Fleet up in a sleip fleet and goes balls deep dps - no logi, no jams just sleips with asb. (most guys are thinking "but i'll die during the reload" which is why you stay tucked in your prot/legion fleet protected by your guardian/ecm tengu blanket) Bottom line on this: if you want the boredom to end - YOU have to get out of your fleet to break the cycle.

I don't have to post with a character from a big wh alliance to speak the truth. Instead of pointing a feeble finger at the character I'm using why not disprove me and explain how the mega uber T3 fleet can provide anything but a slow boring grinding fight.

This was an interesting blog and got me thinking a lot about WH newbros.

If I could add my two cents...you need to make an honest assessment to whether you feel the risk is worth it. The standard "engage and have fun" is a good motto to live by, but when FCing with other people's time earned ISK, make intelligent decisions.

This comes from knowing your enemies, knowing the battlefield, and everything else included. It comes from being a good FC and a good leader, and there's no differences between being a good FC or leader in wormholes than in any other part of the game, despite the rhetoric that sometimes goes out. If you come into wormholes in a good faith effort to fight and PvP then you will rarely be that alliance that everyone comes to hate, and more likely you'll be welcomed.

If I could impart one thing to new WH bros (which is against my own interest) it would be: don't be a lemming. The WH bro code is good, I like it, I like people that follow it, I try and follow it. But just losing ships for the sake of fights is only something you'll hear experienced WH entities tell newer players. The rest of us are too wizened to fall for that line.

Finally, if you agree with the NPC alt then wormholes aren't for you. The T3 fleet is the best kind of grindy uber blue ball of death. The kind where you fight for 30 minutes with a web of armor repairing and capacitor feeding and neuting, where one mistake tips the fight into a cascade. Not all WH fights are like that, but when you get one you realize how awesome it is.

I suffer from the same. Thats why I suck at pvp

I am here to fight. Period. That is all ISK is for in my point of view. And hopefully I am just facing some initial problems due to being new inside an alien environment.

That being said: we will probably have to find a good balance between making intelligent decisions and deliberatly putting ourselves into harms way in order to get good fights. The ability to find that balance will come with experience. We declined a fight that we weren't entirely sure about yesterday - in a similar situation I will probably decide otherwise, if only to be able to compare the two.



Those are actually the fights I am looking for. I agree with 7enn to the point where it isn't fun fighting such gangs if your own gang simply isn't strong enough to deal with such a setup, but since in essence we had T3s and logistics as well, there was at least a possibilty of getting into a good fight.

The majority of my experiences in Eve PvP so far have been limited to solo frig fights. And those are over in mere minutes if not seconds. The idea of being on grid with an enemy fleet for 15, 20 or even more minutes while simultaneously dealing with target changes, logistics, caps, neuts and jams is really appealing for me.

Thanks,

V

Give me a sec while I get my flamesuit on and put on my helmet. Safety first and all.....

I agree with 7enn. Obviously, he is someones alt, but that doesn't make his points more/less valid. I am sure some people enjoy the T3/guardian grind fleets, and that is fine. However, there seems to be more than a few that are starting to sour on those fleet comps.

Also, the learn by doing approach is probably the best approach to have. Sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you. The best thing you can do is have good scouts. They can get eyes on the people you want to shoot, plus it will give you a chance to look up killboards and see what they roll with.

That said, the main purpose of it all is to have fun. Kill some people, lose a few ships, and laugh your ass off in the process.

That or someone goes ballz in and kicks things up a notch making it more fun.. Another fun trick for OP is to know your WH mass.. When they bring in there gang.. have a triage log in and allign to the hole.. when you pull them off the hole warp a carrier into the hole and jump it back and forth and collapse them in..

Then you can brawl outrageous...

when your the underdog fun little tricks make all the difference

wow

People keep coming up with this statement saying there is no counter but DPS, and it makes me **** myself laughing at how bad you are at brawl fleets every time =) There are plenty of counters I won't bother posting them for you because if you can't figure them out yourself you don't deserve to hear them.

T3 never killed wormhole fights, all that will happen if they go away is everyone will change to CMD ships, which with less utility slots and less dps means fleets will get much much larger because then dps WILL be all that will win fights.
The nature of wormholes themselves encourage/demand brawl fights, if you can't adapt you will wither and die not the other way round.

As to dps versus logi, there is a lower limit for what size a gang can be before most counters start to work versus the other side, that's just the nature of things. a 4/5 an dps fleet is going to struggle to kill anything with logi on field ever. you need around 20 subcaps to be able to apply enough damage in the time alloted.

Mind you if you have 4 dps dealers and your fighting on a hole then even with no logi on the field the enemy would have to act ******** to allow you to kill a single one of them when they can just jump back and warp away. That's how wormholes work. IF you want 0,0 go there most wh crews that can't take fights in wh tend to do just that, and then gank what they can from the rest.

Nah. If there was a really good counter to t3s you would see that all the time. It just takes one group to find out something new and it spreads like a wilfire. T3s are generaly the best at close combat.
I think you are right thoug about that cmd ship would probably be a good contender if there was no t3s around. But the biggest problem with the t3s, is that as fast you get into the range of the loki / protii you get forced to brawl because you cant get away.
You could go to the route to have ships that shoots 55k+ out but dps and counter tackle will be problematic.

So t3s with control sphere + the choke points really limits what you could do if you are in a smaller gang. In k-space movement is often the key and the answer to fighting the blob.