These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Rubicon] Rapid Missile Launchers - v2

First post First post First post
Author
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1581 - 2013-11-16 00:39:49 UTC
The big plus of this change is you no longer need to consider rapid launchers when working on a fit. it simplifies missile builds a lot when you can just ignore rapid launchers as unviable right from the start.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1582 - 2013-11-16 00:50:24 UTC
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:

I must assume that by "If you know how" you mean if you have them at 20-30 km away from you and you're using scorch.

Because even with dual webs a zealot cannot track a close orbiting KESTREL, let alone a fast frig.

Are you sure? According to EFT you can do it in scram / web range using INM crystals (0.1 tracking) and somewhere between 9 and 10 km your applied damage should be about 80%. EFT aside, I remember doing it while testing things on numerous occasions but at the moment I cannot confirm EFT numbers with certainty.

EDIT: If you overheat your web and with flying to negate transversal at 11 km (where INM optimal ends) you could be able to do near full damage to afterburner fitted Merlin. Sadly, I'm unable to repeat the same fighting simulation these days so I can't tell what correct numbers are.




... What?

Negate transversal.. on a frigate.. while scrammed and webbed in a cruiser?

10 km? why would a frig stay at that range with you? what? wha?

I'm out, I'm ooout.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#1583 - 2013-11-16 00:53:58 UTC
Dinta Zembo wrote:
So will the Golem get a bonus to heavy missile damage?
edit - never mind, found it

Don't feel bad for asking. In testing, the new Marauders never got the 100% missile damage bonus for RHMLs - and despite numerous (and repeat) requests for clarification in both the Marauders and RHML threads - not a f*ck was given. That's my biggest gripe with the changes: little or no advance notice, and feedback and questions from players has all but been ignored.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#1584 - 2013-11-16 00:57:21 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:

I must assume that by "If you know how" you mean if you have them at 20-30 km away from you and you're using scorch.

Because even with dual webs a zealot cannot track a close orbiting KESTREL, let alone a fast frig.

Are you sure? According to EFT you can do it in scram / web range using INM crystals (0.1 tracking) and somewhere between 9 and 10 km your applied damage should be about 80%. EFT aside, I remember doing it while testing things on numerous occasions but at the moment I cannot confirm EFT numbers with certainty.

EDIT: If you overheat your web and with flying to negate transversal at 11 km (where INM optimal ends) you could be able to do near full damage to afterburner fitted Merlin. Sadly, I'm unable to repeat the same fighting simulation these days so I can't tell what correct numbers are.




... What?

Negate transversal.. on a frigate.. while scrammed and webbed in a cruiser?

10 km? why would a frig stay at that range with you? what? wha?

I'm out, I'm ooout.


Told you mate. Don't bother trying people don't care. Just go kill them when they think they can kick your arse and collect their tears when you drop them Twisted

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.

Andrea Keuvo
Rusty Pricks
#1585 - 2013-11-16 01:09:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Keuvo
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Since these changes are "officially" in Rubicon 1.0, let's discuss what we can change for Rubicon 1.1. My proposal is to revise RLMLs by increasing ammunition capacity by approximately 100% and reducing reload time by 25%.

Rapid Light Missile Launchers
• Revise ammunition capacity from -77.5% to -50% (0.60 m3/40 rounds on RLML II)
• Decrease the reload time from 40 seconds to 30 seconds

Rapid Heavy Missile Launchers
• No changes



I second this, and implement 10 second ammo switch
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#1586 - 2013-11-16 01:20:31 UTC
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
I second this, and implement 10 second ammo switch

I'll add that.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Hi O
l'.
#1587 - 2013-11-16 01:36:02 UTC
lol @ DPS loss. Your killboard is nothing but APi verified PI industrials and afk mining barges.

Golly, maybe someday you'll solo one of those skillless kills and graduate to the big leagues.
Ginger Barbarella
#1588 - 2013-11-16 01:48:51 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
The big plus of this change is you no longer need to consider rapid launchers when working on a fit. it simplifies missile builds a lot when you can just ignore rapid launchers as unviable right from the start.


Yup, it simplifies me right out of missile boats. Shame.

+1 to CCP for it's continued slight to those of us that prefer solo to gate camping, station camping, 3AM CTAs, and manic FCs. Keep up the awesome job. Why not just save yourself the trouble and end high sec as we know it, get rid of the wardec feature, and just let blobs rule? Would save you guys a whole LOT of time and effort.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

kurage87
EVE University
Ivy League
#1589 - 2013-11-16 02:16:57 UTC
Hi O wrote:
lol @ DPS loss. Your killboard is nothing but APi verified PI industrials and afk mining barges.

Golly, maybe someday you'll solo one of those skillless kills and graduate to the big leagues.

Everything you say I can't help but be enthralled by, looking at you is like looking into the void.

Oh, on topic. Buff to 2/3 man gangs, buff to blob. Nerf to solo and small gang. Death to PvE use. Me no likey.
Hi O
l'.
#1590 - 2013-11-16 02:23:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Hi O
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
The big plus of this change is you no longer need to consider rapid launchers when working on a fit. it simplifies missile builds a lot when you can just ignore rapid launchers as unviable right from the start.


Yup, it simplifies me right out of missile boats. Shame.

+1 to CCP for it's continued slight to those of us that prefer solo to gate camping, station camping, 3AM CTAs, and manic FCs. Keep up the awesome job. Why not just save yourself the trouble and end high sec as we know it, get rid of the wardec feature, and just let blobs rule? Would save you guys a whole LOT of time and effort.



You must have missed the stockholder's fiscal "retreat." Long-term company strategy clearly outlined in the main article here: http://eve.us.com
Kenshi Hanshin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1591 - 2013-11-16 03:33:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenshi Hanshin
Harvey James wrote:
I still think its the wrong approach..

just add new launchers with lower fittings and maybe add new missiles:-

light torp launcher - light torps
lower fittings - lower expl rad/ higher exp velocity / higher missile velocity/range/ lower damage per volley

medium assault missile launcher - medium assault missiles
lower fittings - lower expl rad/ higher exp velocity /higher missile velocity/range/ lower damage per volley

nerf range on current torps and rename them heavy torps

nerf range on current HAMS

this would solve what Rapids are trying to do but in a more balanced way and makes much more sense /less OP than rapids will/are now.

and DELETE rapids....


The quoted proposal above is one of the best proposals that I have seen in awhile...
_____________________________________________________________________
CCP Rise, congratulations you have completely killed missile boats for me. HMLs aren't used except in large gangs. Where the number of the ships that are firing offsets the insanely poor damage-application.

RLMLs are only really useful against frig hulls. It can be used with decent affect on Industrials and Miners. But aren't really useful against cruisers with any decent tank.

RHMLs are taking those sad crappy HMs and just firing them faster. So what you have really done is make a launcher that will fire all my missiles quickly. Then I get stuck with a Ancillary-like reload time. Missiles are meant to have damage flexibility, strong anti-EW characteristics and optimized for alpha. However, one would think that ancillary-style reload-time on a 'delayed-alpha' weapon system would be draconian and broken.

TBH, missile mechanics are needed to be fixed. They are ridiculously bad. If you want my breakdown of the problems with it refer to the Cruise Missile balance from the last expansion. But to summarize for any noobs, missiles have **** damage-application. Turrets and drones are all much better on the damage-application, not a little but entire different universes difference.

This proposal gives me no incentive to put any further effort into missiles than I have prior to Retribution. Again, CCP Rise I am astounded by you and your teams lack of innovation, long-range thinking, or even understanding of cause-effect principle. If you are set on doing this Caldari need another rebalance on the T1-T2 and T3. That rebalance needs to happen before any more of whatever delusional-ridiculous stuff in your head.

Have a good night!

PS. I strongly request a full refund of all SP spent in missiles. Since they are well on their way to the trash-bin thanks to you CCP Rise. Oh and you can check, but I have not flown a Caldari ship in any serious role since Retribution. And the reason is your ideas.
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#1592 - 2013-11-16 04:25:17 UTC
Kenshi Hanshin wrote:
CCP Rise, congratulations you have completely killed missile boats for me.

Can I have your stuff? Lol

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#1593 - 2013-11-16 05:16:51 UTC
I would rather enjoy it if CCP Rise were instead to be known as CCP 40Second.

Then again, I would rather enjoy it if missiles had been scheduled for an in-depth rebalance and RHMLs shelved until afterward. Looks like I'm not getting either of the things I want.
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
#1594 - 2013-11-16 05:20:15 UTC
This thread is truly depressing.
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#1595 - 2013-11-16 06:33:27 UTC
Zvaarian the Red wrote:
This thread is truly depressing.

Only if you use RLMLs.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Kenshi Hanshin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1596 - 2013-11-16 08:00:09 UTC
*Correction*

After playing around with the RHMLs on Singularity some more. I have to agree that they show some promise/use. The clip size could be a bit larger, that would be nice you know, like 25 Missiles.

The most glaring issue with the RHMLs and RLMLs is that change to a 40-second reload time. That is really ridiculous and draconian. I understand and agree that these launchers should have a longer reload time. However, a 4x increase over the standard launchers is beyond absurd. Instead, this should be 2x or 3x the regular HML/LML AT MOST.

Reducing the reload time to 20 or 30 seconds will still be long enough prevent ridiculous missile spamming. Yet, at the same time it will prevent the launchers from being relegated to a back-room shelf. In other words, there would still be a reason to use the Rapid launchers.
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#1597 - 2013-11-16 08:06:03 UTC
Kenshi Hanshin wrote:
*Correction*

After playing around with the RHMLs on Singularity some more. I have to agree that they show some promise/use. The clip size could be a bit larger, that would be nice you know, like 25 Missiles.

Faction are probably 25, no? (I imagine Officer hold a few more)

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1598 - 2013-11-16 10:20:11 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:

I must assume that by "If you know how" you mean if you have them at 20-30 km away from you and you're using scorch.

Because even with dual webs a zealot cannot track a close orbiting KESTREL, let alone a fast frig.

Are you sure? According to EFT you can do it in scram / web range using INM crystals (0.1 tracking) and somewhere between 9 and 10 km your applied damage should be about 80%. EFT aside, I remember doing it while testing things on numerous occasions but at the moment I cannot confirm EFT numbers with certainty.

EDIT: If you overheat your web and with flying to negate transversal at 11 km (where INM optimal ends) you could be able to do near full damage to afterburner fitted Merlin. Sadly, I'm unable to repeat the same fighting simulation these days so I can't tell what correct numbers are.

... What?

Negate transversal.. on a frigate.. while scrammed and webbed in a cruiser?

10 km? why would a frig stay at that range with you? what? wha?

I'm out, I'm ooout.

If you are scrammed and webbed with frigate in close orbit, then forget it. Not each and every frigate has a web or scram though, there are still certain circumstances in which you can apply at least 50% more damage comparing to HAM's.
the jury
SPANK THE MONKEY
Pain And Compliance
#1599 - 2013-11-16 10:34:19 UTC
I love the way eve players are trying to reason with ccp by giving them little ideas on how to maybe improve the RLML change. 1st off ccp don't care which I posted about a week ago . Shocked
2nd when was the last time ccp rise even posted on this thread or even looked at it .

so lets look at what's new

2 new SOE ships and 4 new mobile structures not to mention the new RHML and a new type of implant.
everything else is a improvement on a mechanic which is already in game.
does the bastion mod count as new or part of the ship rebalance Roll
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1600 - 2013-11-16 10:49:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Niena Nuamzzar
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Since these changes are "officially" in Rubicon 1.0, let's discuss what we can change for Rubicon 1.1. My proposal is to revise RLMLs by increasing ammunition capacity by approximately 100% and reducing reload time by 25%.

Rapid Light Missile Launchers
• Revise ammunition capacity from -77.5% to -50% (0.60 m3/40 rounds on RLML II)
• Decrease the reload time from 40 seconds to 30 seconds

Rapid Heavy Missile Launchers
• No changes

I second this, and implement 10 second ammo switch

I don't, because old RLML are GONE, replaced with this long reload swarm garbage! If we allow this ancillary idea to spread and to take root in people minds, they won't stop with killing only rapid light missiles. If we don't do anything now, when this disease comes to your weapon system (which you might think works perfectly fine) it will be too late - Rise will just ignore you, the same way he's ignoring us now.