These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Using AU units in Directional Scanner
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Bayta Charante
#1 - 2013-11-15 21:18:26 UTC
That, DS should accept AU as unit when entering a max distance. I know that 1AU =~ 150 000 000 KM, buy having to make the conversion all the time is pointless.

0666: read and write for everyone!
Sarah Stallman
Pen2 Logistics
#2 - 2013-11-15 21:32:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarah Stallman
Personally, I think we should abolish AU from the game completely, and stick with SI prefixes. AU is an insane unit of measurement for a people for whom Earth is basically an old legend.

Change the overviews to automatically move through kilo-, mega-, giga- & terameters. 200 AU being 29.9 TM.

It would also be nice if the overview always listed distances to three significant figures. Actually, this one is getting its own thread.
Bayta Charante
#3 - 2013-11-15 21:56:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Bayta Charante
Sarah Stallman wrote:

It would also be nice if the overview always listed distances to three significant figures. Actually, this one is getting its own thread.


Yeah, definitely

Sarah Stallman wrote:
Personally, I think we should abolish AU from the game completely, and stick with SI prefixes. AU is an insane unit of measurement for a people for whom Earth is basically an old legend.


Yeah, that's also true, it's like really twisted from the lore side if they are still using a reference from a solar system they haven't seen in 20.000 years

0666: read and write for everyone!
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-11-15 22:06:24 UTC
why not use Lightyears, -months, -days, -hours, -minutes, -seconds
1 AU~8 Lightminutes

but yeah a standard measuring would be nice and i would prefer either AU or in dependence of c.
Sarah Stallman
Pen2 Logistics
#5 - 2013-11-15 22:21:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarah Stallman
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:
why not use Lightyears, -months, -days, -hours, -minutes, -seconds
1 AU~8 Lightminutes

but yeah a standard measuring would be nice and i would prefer either AU or in dependence of c.


There's no reason not to use a light based method but easier to just use km, Mm, Gm & Tm. Three significant figures and you'll always have the distance accurate at a glance with a less-than-1% margin of error.
Ix Method
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-11-15 22:26:06 UTC
Just give us a damn slider Sad

Travelling at the speed of love.
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#7 - 2013-11-15 23:03:59 UTC
Sarah Stallman wrote:
Personally, I think we should abolish AU from the game completely, and stick with SI prefixes.


What are you talking about AU is the standard measurement when talking about any distance with a solar system. Light measures years etc are used what talking about extra solarsystem measures i.e 'deep space'. Making all the measurements a factor of km just makes it a mess as most people can't even easily picture a km of distance in their mind but AU (being the distance from earth to the sun) is easily to imagine as we have a perfect reference in the sky. Roll

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Sarah Stallman
Pen2 Logistics
#8 - 2013-11-15 23:32:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarah Stallman
Taoist Dragon wrote:
Sarah Stallman wrote:
Personally, I think we should abolish AU from the game completely, and stick with SI prefixes.


What are you talking about AU is the standard measurement when talking about any distance with a solar system. Light measures years etc are used what talking about extra solarsystem measures i.e 'deep space'. Making all the measurements a factor of km just makes it a mess as most people can't even easily picture a km of distance in their mind but AU (being the distance from earth to the sun) is easily to imagine as we have a perfect reference in the sky. Roll


No, it is not. It is a common shorthand but no actual science is done with it. All actual actual work is done in SI units as converting between systems is just asking for math errors.

There are two problems with AU in regards to EVE. The first is the interaction between local and system wide measurements, such as the D-Scan. The second is, why would New Eden adopt a standard measurement based on the best estimated average distance between Earth and Sol?
Zella Polaris
Pitchfork Uprising Holdings
#9 - 2013-11-15 23:42:19 UTC
I'm cool with using AU / lightminutes / SI / horse-related measurements, as long as we get the option for switching between our preferred style and have it be consistent throughout :)

Pitchfork Militia, part of Catastrophic Uprising, is recruiting. 0.0 SOV, emphasis on PvP, NBSI
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2013-11-15 23:44:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
Better question. How would the people in EVE have any idea what the average distance between Earth and Sol was? Do they even know what Earth and Sol are?
Sarah Stallman
Pen2 Logistics
#11 - 2013-11-16 00:00:21 UTC
History geeks probably do, but that very thing is why I think it is insane they would. AU is literally useless as a precise measurement, it's an approximation calculated from another approximation.
Bayta Charante
#12 - 2013-11-16 00:35:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Bayta Charante
The point is not if it's AU, LYears, Lminutes, or what ever, the DS should be able to handle those inputs in the "max scan range"

0666: read and write for everyone!
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#13 - 2013-11-16 01:04:27 UTC
Sarah Stallman wrote:

No, it is not. It is a common shorthand but no actual science is done with it. All actual actual work is done in SI units as converting between systems is just asking for math errors.

There are two problems with AU in regards to EVE. The first is the interaction between local and system wide measurements, such as the D-Scan. The second is, why would New Eden adopt a standard measurement based on the best estimated average distance between Earth and Sol?


True converting between the systems introduces math errors however when does any calculation relating to in system maths translate to extra system maths. Never the values you are talking about are exponetially powered so no correlation applies.

The correlation from local (on grid say) to system wide has the same exponential powered differences. So if you are wanting to scan into the larger powered scales i.e AU, then why not have the scanning tool measure that.

However using your choice above why does eve even use any SI unit for that matter? If using AU would be antiquated etc then why wouldn't they have developed a 'standard space' measurement themselves.

Ultimately a simple fix would be just have a slider and a display showing AU for when doing long scans and km for short scans easy. Cool

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Sarah Stallman
Pen2 Logistics
#14 - 2013-11-16 01:48:07 UTC
There *is* a standard space measurement. It's meters. All of the math requires it, unless you want to use different values for all of the constants.

No in-system distance in EVE will ever exceed 50 Tm, and given that all other units presented in EVE are SI it would be in keeping to switch over.
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#15 - 2013-11-16 02:07:03 UTC
Sarah Stallman wrote:
There *is* a standard space measurement. It's meters. All of the math requires it, unless you want to use different values for all of the constants.

No in-system distance in EVE will ever exceed 50 Tm, and given that all other units presented in EVE are SI it would be in keeping to switch over.


Really who cares?!

The point I was making was not about the units themselves but the ability of the players to 'visualise' the distances we are talking about. 1 AU is easy to visualise as we see it every day and it imediately gives us a reference to base dastance on (regardless of whether that is correct or not) now ask someone who isn't of a scientific/mathematic or engineering mind to visualise 149,597,871km and they'll just look at you funny. What happens in the background has little to no bearing on what players would prefer seeing on the screen.

Give the Dscan a slider and I can gauruntee that 95% of all the players won't even know what distance they are scanning at.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Sarah Stallman
Pen2 Logistics
#16 - 2013-11-16 02:18:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarah Stallman
How does the AU give reference to anything? If you asked people on the street, they have no idea how far away the Earth is from the sun, nor of how much bigger the sun actually is. There is a sense of scale there that many people are inherently unable to comprehend.

If you want to try fun but otherwise meaningless popular polls, ask people how long it would take to get from here to the sun at the fastest speed a human has ever traveled, ignoring things like gravity for simplicity. (Hint: It's measured in months)

As for the original suggestion, it is more intuitive and easier to use a single common unit system, not arbitrarily switch from one to another. The biggest challenge I had with D-scanning was doing the conversion in my head fast enough, I am terrible at memorizing things, and given the number of people who save a conversion table to their bio I can't be alone on this.
BlakPhoenix
Load Up Blast Everything
DARKNESS.
#17 - 2013-11-16 02:43:56 UTC
Meters itself is an Earth driven measurement that would hold next to no meaning for capsuleers of New Eden. Personally I'd prefer a more universal measurement to be used that also can be used for capital ships when calculating jump measurements (light years are already used here).

Regardless of the measurement that is used though, I would just like it to be consistent, easily readable and more importantly PLEASE update the directional scanner its SO frustrating to use when you're in a hurry.
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#18 - 2013-11-16 02:55:53 UTC
Sarah Stallman wrote:
Personally, I think we should abolish AU from the game completely, and stick with SI prefixes. AU is an insane unit of measurement for a people for whom Earth is basically an old legend.

Change the overviews to automatically move through kilo-, mega-, giga- & terameters. 200 AU being 29.9 TM.

It would also be nice if the overview always listed distances to three significant figures. Actually, this one is getting its own thread.


AU is far more precise than TMs would be, 1 AU = .15TM?

AU were a standard measure of unit when colonists came from earth, so that measurement was maintained with the technology that survived the Dark Years.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Sarah Stallman
Pen2 Logistics
#19 - 2013-11-16 02:57:00 UTC
No, the SI is not earth based. While the specific value of the units is quite arbitrary, they are defined from physical phenomena that can be reproduced anywhere.
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#20 - 2013-11-16 04:32:38 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
AU is far more precise than TMs would be, 1 AU = .15TM?

AU were a standard measure of unit when colonists came from earth, so that measurement was maintained with the technology that survived the Dark Years.

1 AU = 150Gm i guess.

Lore-wise i doubt that any of ancient measurements were maintained Dark Years as all 4 races had to reinvent space flight from ground zero and there is no point in using measurement that has no relevance in EvE.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
12Next page