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Why does null-sec want to conquer high-sec?
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Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#141 - 2013-11-12 19:10:44 UTC
Cattibrie Do'Urden wrote:


..... it sounds like there needs to be more in low/null sec. One to give them something else to do and two, to tempt more people into those areas.

I don't think the game should force people out of high sec (stick), I think it should tempt them out of high sec (carrot) but if someone wants to spend a few hours a day manufacturing, hauling, mining etc this should be feasible (there is obviously still a certain level of risk anyway).


I agree with this general statement, the problem with this game right now isnt the highsec game it is the low / nullsec game. Im not sure what the fix is but low / null is definitely where the problem exists.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#142 - 2013-11-12 19:21:59 UTC
Ghost Phius wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:

If this is true, which by the way i doubt, then CCP has a serious lack of understanding of what kind of game he highsec crowd wants and is willing to play.



LOL good one.



LOL good one.


(since you seem fairly inarticulate I'm guessing this is the only form of communication you understand, so in what I'm sure will be a vain attempt at communicating with you, i just responded in kind).

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#143 - 2013-11-12 19:36:14 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
Cattibrie Do'Urden wrote:


..... it sounds like there needs to be more in low/null sec. One to give them something else to do and two, to tempt more people into those areas.

I don't think the game should force people out of high sec (stick), I think it should tempt them out of high sec (carrot) but if someone wants to spend a few hours a day manufacturing, hauling, mining etc this should be feasible (there is obviously still a certain level of risk anyway).


I agree with this general statement, the problem with this game right now isnt the highsec game it is the low / nullsec game. Im not sure what the fix is but low / null is definitely where the problem exists.


Well to start with most of null is worthless space that generates less income than even the worst high sec system with a level 4 agent in it.
KuroVolt
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#144 - 2013-11-12 19:37:33 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
Cattibrie Do'Urden wrote:


..... it sounds like there needs to be more in low/null sec. One to give them something else to do and two, to tempt more people into those areas.

I don't think the game should force people out of high sec (stick), I think it should tempt them out of high sec (carrot) but if someone wants to spend a few hours a day manufacturing, hauling, mining etc this should be feasible (there is obviously still a certain level of risk anyway).


I agree with this general statement, the problem with this game right now isnt the highsec game it is the low / nullsec game. Im not sure what the fix is but low / null is definitely where the problem exists.


Well to start with most of null is worthless space that generates less income than even the worst high sec system with a level 4 agent in it.


But its home. <3

BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#145 - 2013-11-12 21:19:34 UTC
Space socialism is truly wonderful.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#146 - 2013-11-12 21:26:01 UTC
Fcking commies. All we need is a few good men...
Tarn Ellecon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#147 - 2013-11-12 21:37:25 UTC
The EVE forums are more gloomy than the DUST ones, and that game has reasons to be gloomy.

"F*ck the Polis" - Socrates
KuroVolt
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#148 - 2013-11-14 18:59:54 UTC
EVE according to Null sec.
EVE according to High sec.

BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#149 - 2013-11-14 19:16:45 UTC
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#150 - 2013-11-14 20:23:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Inxentas Ultramar
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
You both OBVIOUSLY don't get it.

Like, at all. You have this ridiculous "Saturday morning cartoon villain" vision of what motives people have for thinking a certain way.


Pirate

Actually, some people do. But they are not the big null blocks. Sometimes I wonder if everyone just forgot about lowsec and it's residents but there, where turf and engagements are usually smaller occurancies, is a subtle balance between locals owning stuff and null blocks owning stuff. Oh yes and even hisec industrials owning stuff! Why would hisec be different? In between is one mad pirate scientist (unraveling eve's mysteries) and I'm gonna shoot at your customs office tee hee hee! And if you kill my fleet there's always next time, gadget, next time!

TL;DR I think more people are gonna want a piece of the cake that comes with Rubicon. Especially the cartoon villains!
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#151 - 2013-11-14 20:56:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Little Dragon Khamez
baltec1 wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
Cattibrie Do'Urden wrote:


..... it sounds like there needs to be more in low/null sec. One to give them something else to do and two, to tempt more people into those areas.

I don't think the game should force people out of high sec (stick), I think it should tempt them out of high sec (carrot) but if someone wants to spend a few hours a day manufacturing, hauling, mining etc this should be feasible (there is obviously still a certain level of risk anyway).


I agree with this general statement, the problem with this game right now isnt the highsec game it is the low / nullsec game. Im not sure what the fix is but low / null is definitely where the problem exists.


Well to start with most of null is worthless space that generates less income than even the worst high sec system with a level 4 agent in it.


Disagree with all of the above, I've earned shitloads of cash in null, and out earn any and every l4 mission I've done. That's because I don't safespot when people come through where I am operating. Cos I'm not a carebear.

I will finish by saying that Null Sec isn't about the money, that would be stupid, you go to null for freedom. The absolute freedom to do what you like, the consequences of which are your own...

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#152 - 2013-11-14 21:04:24 UTC
Quote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:


Well to start with most of null is worthless space that generates less income than even the worst high sec system with a level 4 agent in it.


Disagree with all of the above, I've earned shitloads of cash in null, and out earn any and every l4 mission I've done. That's because I don't safespot when people come through where I am operating. Cos I'm not a carebear.

I will finish by saying that Null Sec isn't about the money, that would be stupid, you go to null for freedom. The absolute freedom to do what you like, the consequences of which are your own...


Way to miss the point. What does what you posted have to do with the value of most null sec systems?

And yes, people go to null for the freedom, but they have to PAY for it somehow. For the average player, that means mining or ratting/exploration. After the anom nerf, the majority null sec system can't provide for one person the same kind of income over time a single high sec system with a lvl 4 mission agent can.

And that mission agent doesn't care if multiple people use him at once (he can give out infinite missions), even the best upgraded sov null system has a concrete upper limit on how many people it can support (ie, take the number of hubs, havens and sanctums that system will spawn, multiply by 2 and blam, you got the "better than high sec lvl 4s profitability limit of that system).
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#153 - 2013-11-14 21:11:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Little Dragon Khamez
Jenn aSide wrote:
Quote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:


Well to start with most of null is worthless space that generates less income than even the worst high sec system with a level 4 agent in it.


Disagree with all of the above, I've earned shitloads of cash in null, and out earn any and every l4 mission I've done. That's because I don't safespot when people come through where I am operating. Cos I'm not a carebear.

I will finish by saying that Null Sec isn't about the money, that would be stupid, you go to null for freedom. The absolute freedom to do what you like, the consequences of which are your own...


Way to miss the point. What does what you posted have to do with the value of most null sec systems?

And yes, people go to null for the freedom, but they have to PAY for it somehow. For the average player, that means mining or ratting/exploration. After the anom nerf, the majority null sec system can't provide for one person the same kind of income over time a single high sec system with a lvl 4 mission agent can.

And that mission agent doesn't care if multiple people use him at once (he can give out infinite missions), even the best upgraded sov null system has a concrete upper limit on how many people it can support (ie, take the number of hubs, havens and sanctums that system will spawn, multiply by 2 and blam, you got the "better than high sec lvl 4s profitability limit of that system).


Hi Jen, not to be disrespectful, but I think you've misunderstood me. I am saying that null is more profitable than high sec if you stick around and take risks. Different things motivate different people, so for me freedom is important. I appreciate that some people are attracted to the big money of null as a carrot vs stick argument, but I personally find that some people (and I am not including you in this group) want the rewards of null without the risk.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Jessica Braun
Doomheim
#154 - 2013-11-14 21:28:54 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:

You want an explanation?
Okay... try this one on for size.....

People that lack a sense of entitlement tend to get VERY annoyed at CONSTANTLY hearing those who DO have a sense of entitlement, whine about freakin EVERYTHING THAT DOESN'T GO THEIR WAY.....
When dudes in nullsec have to constantly work to hold onto everything they have.... that's called "doing it for yourself".
When dudes hang out in protected areas, reaping the benefits of a strict set of rules... that's called "assisted living".

It doesn't take a Libertarian to figure this junk out.



A Libertarian would laugh at your analysis. Not all; but this one does. This drips of, "I should have spent more time in PoliSci 101 and less smoking pot in the community college parking lot."

There is this mindset that everyone in highsec is some sort of carebear hiding behind the Concord curtain. True, many are for that reason but many (emphasis on 'many') also live and thrive there because they like the convenience of being close to the markets and not having to use a jump freighter every time they want to ship anything.

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#155 - 2013-11-14 21:47:49 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Quote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:


Well to start with most of null is worthless space that generates less income than even the worst high sec system with a level 4 agent in it.


Disagree with all of the above, I've earned shitloads of cash in null, and out earn any and every l4 mission I've done. That's because I don't safespot when people come through where I am operating. Cos I'm not a carebear.

I will finish by saying that Null Sec isn't about the money, that would be stupid, you go to null for freedom. The absolute freedom to do what you like, the consequences of which are your own...


Way to miss the point. What does what you posted have to do with the value of most null sec systems?

And yes, people go to null for the freedom, but they have to PAY for it somehow. For the average player, that means mining or ratting/exploration. After the anom nerf, the majority null sec system can't provide for one person the same kind of income over time a single high sec system with a lvl 4 mission agent can.

And that mission agent doesn't care if multiple people use him at once (he can give out infinite missions), even the best upgraded sov null system has a concrete upper limit on how many people it can support (ie, take the number of hubs, havens and sanctums that system will spawn, multiply by 2 and blam, you got the "better than high sec lvl 4s profitability limit of that system).


Hi Jen, not to be disrespectful, but I think you've misunderstood me. I am saying that null is more profitable than high sec if you stick around and take risks. Different things motivate different people, so for me freedom is important. I appreciate that some people are attracted to the big money of null as a carrot vs stick argument, but I personally find that some people (and I am not including you in this group) want the rewards of null without the risk.


I understand that, people all over the game want rewards without risk. I don't safe up either, I tend to do my thing in ships fit for the purpose of null. What I was responding to was the bolded part, that has nothing to do with what Baltec1 was saying. Baltec was explaining that most of sov null sec is nearly worthless.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#156 - 2013-11-14 23:02:56 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Quote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:


Well to start with most of null is worthless space that generates less income than even the worst high sec system with a level 4 agent in it.


Disagree with all of the above, I've earned shitloads of cash in null, and out earn any and every l4 mission I've done. That's because I don't safespot when people come through where I am operating. Cos I'm not a carebear.

I will finish by saying that Null Sec isn't about the money, that would be stupid, you go to null for freedom. The absolute freedom to do what you like, the consequences of which are your own...


Way to miss the point. What does what you posted have to do with the value of most null sec systems?

And yes, people go to null for the freedom, but they have to PAY for it somehow. For the average player, that means mining or ratting/exploration. After the anom nerf, the majority null sec system can't provide for one person the same kind of income over time a single high sec system with a lvl 4 mission agent can.

And that mission agent doesn't care if multiple people use him at once (he can give out infinite missions), even the best upgraded sov null system has a concrete upper limit on how many people it can support (ie, take the number of hubs, havens and sanctums that system will spawn, multiply by 2 and blam, you got the "better than high sec lvl 4s profitability limit of that system).


Hi Jen, not to be disrespectful, but I think you've misunderstood me. I am saying that null is more profitable than high sec if you stick around and take risks. Different things motivate different people, so for me freedom is important. I appreciate that some people are attracted to the big money of null as a carrot vs stick argument, but I personally find that some people (and I am not including you in this group) want the rewards of null without the risk.


I understand that, people all over the game want rewards without risk. I don't safe up either, I tend to do my thing in ships fit for the purpose of null. What I was responding to was the bolded part, that has nothing to do with what Baltec1 was saying. Baltec was explaining that most of sov null sec is nearly worthless.


apologies jen, i totally missed the bold, I agree you've got to pick the most valuable systems in null to earn well, apologies again for misunderstanding, English is not my first language when I get tired I miss the nuances occasionally.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#157 - 2013-11-14 23:19:15 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:


apologies jen, i totally missed the bold, I agree you've got to pick the most valuable systems in null to earn well, apologies again for misunderstanding, English is not my first language when I get tired I miss the nuances occasionally.


It's all good G (that's slang for "No problem my good fellow, now good day sir") lol.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#158 - 2013-11-14 23:38:23 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:


Hi Jen, not to be disrespectful, but I think you've misunderstood me. I am saying that null is more profitable than high sec if you stick around and take risks. Different things motivate different people, so for me freedom is important. I appreciate that some people are attracted to the big money of null as a carrot vs stick argument, but I personally find that some people (and I am not including you in this group) want the rewards of null without the risk.


Some individuals make a lot of isk in null, but the individual systems themselves are very difficult to characterise as more profitable than highsec, especially with the low *effort* moongoo nerfed.

Even a fully upgraded -1.0 can only support about 15 simultaneous ratters, and if you have 15 people in corp, dividing up the 20 or so sig spawns amongst them isn't going to go far, and the people holding the -0.9 in these parts have 250 corp members, not 15.
Spurty
#159 - 2013-11-14 23:38:50 UTC
Posting in a thread that contains herf and blerf but no evidence

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#160 - 2013-11-15 00:05:13 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:


Hi Jen, not to be disrespectful, but I think you've misunderstood me. I am saying that null is more profitable than high sec if you stick around and take risks. Different things motivate different people, so for me freedom is important. I appreciate that some people are attracted to the big money of null as a carrot vs stick argument, but I personally find that some people (and I am not including you in this group) want the rewards of null without the risk.


Some individuals make a lot of isk in null, but the individual systems themselves are very difficult to characterise as more profitable than highsec, especially with the low *effort* moongoo nerfed.

goon tears about siphons eh

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?