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CCP we want parity in EVE and DUST514, not special protections for corps with DUST members!
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PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#41 - 2013-11-13 22:51:14 UTC
Honestly, post --->here<---. Most people in GD don't give a fck about dust.
To Be Me
Doomheim
#42 - 2013-11-13 22:58:55 UTC
On a related note make eve playable using qwerfg like in league of legends pls

As of now theres just too many keys its too hard

thumbs up if you like :))))
Crasniya
The Aussienauts
#43 - 2013-11-13 23:03:00 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Honestly, post --->here<---. Most people in GD don't give a fck about dust.


This is CCP reversing the actions of EVE players.

Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - soraya@biomassed.net
Trillian Stargazer
Perkone
Caldari State
#44 - 2013-11-13 23:48:38 UTC
Jihad Destroyer 011011 wrote:
DUST514 Corp Leaders are getting favoritism over EVE Corp Leaders.
Recently several of us have been doing very bad things to corps from within. Corp Espionage has been and should always be considered normal to meta game play in New Eden. it is part of what makes what we do special. We started our plans over 7 months ago and started pulling the triggers on multiple corps in the last few days... In a true sandbox game if you don't do your homework you will get burned HARD. These corps were aligning against some equities we support and decided now was the time.

Recently in several espionage operations GMs have been stepping in to stop or delay corps with DUST members from being taken over rightfully by our team of crack black box operators using normal and well documented espionage methods which I will not go into here. This is an unfair protection of corps with DUST members. I will not post the GMs comments but suffice to say they are hand holding the corps with DUST members and intervening on their behalf to save them unfairly.

Failure of the Build
Clearly all Corps and their leaders SHOULD definitely have access to their shares in EVE and DUST514. Majority DUST514 Corps should not have to have an EVE alt join them to become part of an alliance. Those however are not exploits they are failures of the game build at this time and much higher priority should be placed on getting the code written to allow corps to manage their corps on an equal basis with EVE corp leaders. Additionally EVE leaders should have the same parity to issue DUST specific roles which were recently introduced.

Definitely not an Exploit
At no point were any of the conspiring alts made CEO to cause the shares to be created in the first place, and in a true sandbox game if you do not do your homework and learn you will get burned. Let them burn. I was the second one in for every case, they all had EVE members besides me with experience and therefore we were operating clearly within the mechanics of the game. GMs jumping in the way they did shows favoritism for DUST514 members which paying EVE players NEVER get.

Examples:
While not related to me it is a good example: A corp believes there is a bug and towards the end it comes out the espionage agent was really good at covering his tracks and the CEO/Director is unable to understand what is happening to him. How is this the espionage operators fault? It isn't. The purpose of Espionage involves sewing deception and confusion into their ranks to further cause issues. (as a side note I spoke with the agent that did this, In their corp channel the corp members began threatening the espionage agents real life afterwards. Not the kind of people we want talking to kids who may be playing the game if you ask me. ) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=119273&find=unread

In this next case the CEO is reasonably expected to be upset, they just had their corp stolen, however they went and begged for help and were given an unfair protection from GMs because they "dont know the rules". If I did this in EVE I would have gotten a "Too bad man, HTFU." This espionage is clearly not an exploit as they had admitted to having a great deal of very experienced members in EVE in their corp the whole time, and the leaders were not very smart about their choices. (Also this was legendary in the rage posting from their whole alliance in their EVEmails to me for the last two days. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=119973

Opportunity for Course Correction
So we ask for parity... Corps with DUST leadership should not get special treatment and protections and CCP should really consider putting a priority on ensuring equality and access to roles for EVE and DUST514 leaders managing a corp. Also please consider merging the DUST514 forums into the EVE forums so the DUST players can learn and not suffer in isolation any longer.


Last time i checked this was the EVE ONLINE forum and not the DUST514 forum. Please take your post to the DUST514 forums and stop posting this **** in EVE GD.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2013-11-14 00:07:54 UTC
Carmen Electra wrote:
This. I'm having a tough time sympathizing with the OP's botched attempt to mercilessly grief other players.

I am too. From my limited knowledge of the subject it is impossible for dust players to control shares from their side. This is an abuse of game mechanics that they cannot combat without creating eve accounts, and is extremely poor design. In addition, reading the thread on the dust forums and seeing a post linking to the travesty that is the eve online wiki made me realize how little information is really disseminated to them.
Carmen Electra wrote:
I wonder if EVE's current sociopathic cesspit of a playerbase is really what CCP envisioned in 2003.

Cesspit of a player base... Can't agree with this one. This game was designed to be a microcosm of society with many restrictions removed. In addition the devs and gm's have repeatedly supported meta gaming in eve over the years. The difference is that in eve the same mechanics that are used to scam and grief players can also be turned against their attackers. In this specific instance dust players are essentially defenseless.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#46 - 2013-11-14 00:14:26 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
This game was designed to be a microcosm of society with many restrictions removed.


You nailed it. I'm starting to think that restrictions/inhibitions are not a totally bad thing after hanging with this community for a while though!

Bacon makes us stronger
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#47 - 2013-11-14 00:15:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Little Dragon Khamez
Jihad Destroyer 011011 wrote:
DUST514 Corp Leaders are getting favoritism over EVE Corp Leaders.
Recently several of us have been doing very bad things to corps from within. Corp Espionage has been and should always be considered normal to meta game play in New Eden. it is part of what makes what we do special. We started our plans over 7 months ago and started pulling the triggers on multiple corps in the last few days... In a true sandbox game if you don't do your homework you will get burned HARD. These corps were aligning against some equities we support and decided now was the time.

Recently in several espionage operations GMs have been stepping in to stop or delay corps with DUST members from being taken over rightfully by our team of crack black box operators using normal and well documented espionage methods which I will not go into here. This is an unfair protection of corps with DUST members. I will not post the GMs comments but suffice to say they are hand holding the corps with DUST members and intervening on their behalf to save them unfairly.

Failure of the Build
Clearly all Corps and their leaders SHOULD definitely have access to their shares in EVE and DUST514. Majority DUST514 Corps should not have to have an EVE alt join them to become part of an alliance. Those however are not exploits they are failures of the game build at this time and much higher priority should be placed on getting the code written to allow corps to manage their corps on an equal basis with EVE corp leaders. Additionally EVE leaders should have the same parity to issue DUST specific roles which were recently introduced.

Definitely not an Exploit
At no point were any of the conspiring alts made CEO to cause the shares to be cre8ated in the first place, and in a true sandbox game if you do not do your homework and learn you will get burned. Let them burn. I was the second one in for every case, they all had EVE members besides me with experience and therefore we were operating clearly within the mechanics of the game. GMs jumping in the way they did shows favoritism for DUST514 members which paying EVE players NEVER get.

Examples:
While not related to me it is a good example: A corp believes there is a bug and towards the end it comes out the espionage agent was really good at covering his tracks and the CEO/Director is unable to understand what is happening to him. How is this the espionage operators fault? It isn't. The purpose of Espionage involves sewing deception and confusion into their ranks to further cause issues. (as a side note I spoke with the agent that did this, In their corp channel the corp members began threatening the espionage agents real life afterwards. Not the kind of people we want talking to kids who may be playing the game if you ask me. ) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=119273&find=unread


In this next case the CEO is reasonably expected to be upset, they just had their corp stolen, however they went and begged for help and were given an unfair protection from GMs because they "dont know the rules". If I did this in EVE I would have gotten a "Too bad man, HTFU." This espionage is clearly not an exploit as they had admitted to having a great deal of very experienced members in EVE in their corp the whole time, and the leaders were not very smart about their choices. (Also this was legendary in the rage posting from their whole alliance in their EVEmails to me for the last two days. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=119973

Opportunity for Course Correction
So we ask for parity... Corps with DUST leadership should not get special treatment and protections and CCP should really consider putting a priority on ensuring equality and access to roles for EVE and DUST514 leaders managing a corp. Also please consider merging the DUST514 forums into the EVE forums so the DUST players can learn and not suffer in isolation any longer.


If true it's an abuse of the sandbox, I love eve because it's brutal and harsh, handholding is to be avoided at all costs...

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#48 - 2013-11-14 00:23:24 UTC
All I really see here is yet another good reason to uncouple DUST from this game as fast as possible, so that it can be allowed to die quietly without seriously effecting our own game mechanics.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Toshiro Ozuwara
Perkone
#49 - 2013-11-14 00:28:30 UTC
DUST IS A BABBY. A WEE ONE.

It didn't take long to locate the tracking beacon, deep inside the quarters for sleepin' They thought they could get away Not today, it's not the way that this kid plays
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#50 - 2013-11-14 00:35:10 UTC
Crasniya wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Honestly, post --->here<---. Most people in GD don't give a fck about dust.


This is CCP reversing the actions of EVE players.

Again, no one here really gives a **** what people do to or with dust bunnies one way or the other.

Dust is pretty much a failed project for CCP imo. It can't compete with BF4/PS2/any decent current gen shooter. And in a year or two it certainly won't be able to compete with BF5/PS3/any decent next gen shooter. Hopefully the EA dudes they brought in can monetize it enough to where CCP recoups at least a small part of their investment.
Silentsam187
NOMAD.
#51 - 2013-11-14 12:10:45 UTC
I am mainly a DUST player, and I agree with this. Hand holding makes for sloppy organizations.

If people play with fire there should be a chance of getting burned.

They really do need to make DUST corp leaders the same as EVE corp leaders. Give us the ability to form alliances, and even set EVE pilots roles without needing an EVE character to do so.

Quit being squeamish about integrating these two games and give us console players the complexity we crave. Quit judging us by the games that came before and give us the New Eden experience we came for.
Lugalbandak
Doomheim
#52 - 2013-11-14 13:33:11 UTC
Crasniya wrote:
WInter Borne wrote:
Stop playing dust and just let it die?


Um... why? It's more fun than EVE is right now.


yeah i like it , its quick pew pew in new eden

The police horse is the only animal in the world that haz his male genitals on his back
Fractal Muse
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2013-11-14 14:24:12 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
All I really see here is yet another good reason to uncouple DUST from this game as fast as possible, so that it can be allowed to die quietly without seriously effecting our own game mechanics.

Oddly, I see it as the opposite: I see this as a reason to give DUST players access the functionality and features that already exists in their Corps.

This is happening because Corp Leaders in DUST don't have the ability to see shares and the like in their Corp. That was a silly move by CCP in the first place.

I have a hard time saying, "it's their fault" in regards to DUST CEOs when their game client doesn't even reveal the underlying share system of Corporations. The fault, at the end of the day, rests with CCP and not with the players involved.

CCP should have, at least, revealed that there were shares behind the scenes in DUST Corps to give DUST CEOs the option of taking action or being taken advantage of. As it is, this isn't taking advantage of someone who could have done something - the CEOs had no recourse via game mechanics to do anything about it. That's a failure on CCP's part not on the players.

This should be taken as a catalytic moment for CCP to stop treating DUST players as if they are bunnies and realize that they are gamers as well - they aren't substantially less intelligent or capable than EVE players. Give them the tools to start shaping the sandbox and let them in on the greater game.

In my opinion: The more integrated the two games becomes the better for everyone since more people playing in the sandbox creates more opportunity for everyone.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#54 - 2013-11-14 14:41:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
I have had to throw Eve alts into tons of Dust corps to help them apply to alliances over the last few months.

Knowing Dust does not have these menus.... I take my time to explain the concepts of shares and director level access to these Dust CEOs who in all probability, couldnt care less.

As far as I'm concerned, GM's should avoid assisting in these situations.... Devs should ensure that the required Eve side menus and features are coded into Dust's 1st expansion (Due anytime now?) and from there on out, nobody needs a babysitter.

If your going to give a shady character control of your corp... you can sleep in your bed the way you make it.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
TigCobra
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#55 - 2013-11-14 15:57:26 UTC
All CCP needs to do is release this for PC for PC Gamers, the master race.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2013-11-14 16:05:11 UTC
Crasniya wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Honestly, post --->here<---. Most people in GD don't give a fck about dust.


This is CCP reversing the actions of EVE players.

they do it every time some idiot finds bug and exploits it

any more news?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Lord LazyGhost
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2013-11-14 16:13:27 UTC
the day the dust bunnys pay to play and effect the game i play is the day i will care if there corps get ****** over or not until then i realy dont. dust can die a death for all i care get the programmers back onto the game that is paying their wage and make that best it can be before pissing developer time and money up the wall on something thats 5-10years behind ever other fps on the market
Crasniya
The Aussienauts
#58 - 2013-11-14 16:28:23 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Dust is pretty much a failed project for CCP imo. It can't compete with BF4/PS2/any decent current gen shooter. And in a year or two it certainly won't be able to compete with BF5/PS3/any decent next gen shooter.


Obviously you fail to see how BF4/PS2/CoD have no real way of comparing with DUST 514, because it's not even a similar type of game.

Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - soraya@biomassed.net
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#59 - 2013-11-14 16:48:16 UTC
This is an EVE issue as it is related to the links between DUST and EVE, like it or not.

GM intervention in a situation where a player had all the tools at their disposal to defend themselves would be bad, but this appears to be a situation where that was not the case. It is a game mechanic issue that needs to be resolved.

Issues of this type were inevitable, and will be inevitable until DUST is fleshed out with the options we take for granted in EVE.

Once that is done, if a DUST CEO screws up it will be on his head alone.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Cosmar
Syn Interstellar
#60 - 2013-11-14 17:06:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Cosmar
Metagaming is dumb (and by definition outside of the sandbox... box) and CCP know better than to lose the last few thousand or so dust players they have to stupid undocumented game design decisions on their part.

Also Dust is not a sandbox game it's just a console shooter with mild RPG elements to it. There is just one thing you do in that game and that's shoot at people on premade maps if you call that sandbox then what the hell isn't.