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Intergalactic Summit

 
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"Good Caldari, Bad Caldari..."

Author
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#21 - 2013-11-14 08:11:46 UTC
Erys Charantes wrote:
To put it simply... People will believe, and proclaim, absolutely anything that supports their ends. Those taking the time to try and convince others such is not the case, are either lying, or deluded.


A good thing then that I have no ends but my duty and obligations, and am one of the honest few with no agenda to hide or words to lie.

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Isis Dea
Society of Adrift Hope
#22 - 2013-11-14 08:57:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Isis Dea
Good Caldari = Caldari who remember their people, the lower class, that which founds their State and allows the funding of their capsuleers. Caldari who contribute, who matter to mortals, their roots. Caldari who adapt and evolve over hiding behind methods that might have worked for them in the past.

Bad Caldari = The opposite. Those that hide behind their capsuleer titles. Those who see one man's (Heth's) crime and become so incredibly naive that they become puppets of the Caldari Elite. Those who only contribute pointless sarcasm over any form of constructive substance.

These are the things that inspire this Jaijii to serve.

More Character Customization :: Especially compared to what we had in 2003...

Anatole Madullier
Alexylva Paradox
#23 - 2013-11-14 09:15:01 UTC
I know that as stereotypical gallentean I have very little say in who is a good and who is a bad Caldari.

Having said that, I know and mingle with quite a few Caldari and I keep an open mind and I find that those Caldari who can be classed as "good Caldari" are inherently also "good people". I know this might sound odd, but bear with me here.

I have found those people to posses a sense of selflessness, a desire to help, and a genuine care for the people they fly with, for the worlds they come from and the people on the ground who made everything possible. There is a dedication and duty to their ancestors and their future kin that I can respect.

Just this jaijii's two cents hmm.

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#24 - 2013-11-14 13:42:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:
In fact, if anything, it glorifies the Capsuleer class a great deal more then it perhaps deserves. I'd wager that if you started asking random pod pilots if they chose the profession out of a desire to sacrifice themselves for the greater good, or out of a simple desire for wealth and/or immortality, then counted the number of honest former anwsers on your fingers...

Well, you'd run out of Capsuleers before you ran out of fingers, I think.


It intrigues me how frequently sacrifice and the greater good are equated, and are held as being fundamentally opposed to the quest for wealth and power.

Yes heiian exists, but something that does not receive the same frequent attention is the notion that the greater good can in fact be served by becoming wealthy and powerful. Which really is the entire point behind the State's capsule training program and the reason the megacorps are willing to tolerate the existence of any breakaway Caldari freecaptains. They recognise what isn't often spoken aloud - that a powerful economic driver like a freelance capsuleer is, properly exploited, a powerful force for collective benefit in their own right. Indeed, that's the notion behind the megacorporations themselves.

One capsuleer's greedy and callous power-brokering is a multi-billion ISK industry, with all the associated jobs that such industries generate.

If you need proof of that, just look at Jita 4-4. how much money does the Navy make off taxes and service charges at that station? And that money flowing into the Navy benefits the State, the megacorporations and their citizens.

Capsuleers can paradoxically be "good Caldari" in the sense of contributing to the well-being of our people, by being "bad Caldari" in the sense of being solely self-interested.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Anslo
Scope Works
#25 - 2013-11-14 15:02:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
Good Caldari, bad Caldari, good Gallente, bad Gallente...**** it's all subjective to me. One person's good is another person's bad. One person's bad is another person's good. No one, no race or group, has any real authority to label **** like that.

In other words, **** haters, get isk. Ignore them and live your life. If they don't shut up, kill them. All of them.

Easy!

EDIT: Also Tuulinen's and Stitcher's beards are both paragons of what true Caldari men should be like. Just sayin'.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-11-14 15:06:55 UTC
Hung over, Anslo?

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Anslo
Scope Works
#27 - 2013-11-14 15:09:51 UTC
Perpetually. But aside from the beard crack, the rest I was serious about. I thought Caldari were about doing yourself, taking care of your own house. When did being judgmental become a thing?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-11-14 15:13:40 UTC
Caldari are about being Caldari. Tautological, I know, but a more in-depth examination of that thought would border on being an essay.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Anslo
Scope Works
#29 - 2013-11-14 15:16:50 UTC
OK, it's about being Caldari. I mean to me it was about being independent and able to live as you want but I maybe that and simply 'being Caldari' is the same. I dunno, I guess when I heard 'it's about being Caldari,' then see people bickering about what makes a good Caldari or bad Caldari...it just seems ironic. Maybe even hypocritical.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#30 - 2013-11-14 15:28:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Our cultural independence is part of it, yes. Meritocracy is another. Then there's tradition, loyalty, industriousness, collectivism, Heiian, meritocracy, comradeship...

I don't think of it as a linear spectrum with "bad Caldari" at one end and "good Caldari" at the other, but more like a spiderweb graph. Speaking for myself I think I'm a very good Caldari in some areas, and a catastrophically bad one in others.

It's made all the more fuzzy by the way my definitions of "good" and "bad" in any given category may differ wildly from those of my countrymen. I tend to be of the opinion that it is a Caldari virtue to be intellectual, of inquiring mind and sharp insight. Others would have it that having faith in the intelligence of others while keeping your head down and working hard rather than smart is superior.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Anslo
Scope Works
#31 - 2013-11-14 15:31:00 UTC
Eh, guess my understanding of Caldari culture is off then.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#32 - 2013-11-14 15:32:45 UTC
Anybody who claims to understand Caldari culture is lying. Especially if they are Caldari.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#33 - 2013-11-14 15:57:47 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Anybody who claims to understand Caldari culture is lying. Especially if they are Caldari.

I couldn't agree with you more.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#34 - 2013-11-14 16:02:39 UTC
Oh, a network graph is an excellent idea for mapping cultural traits. I like that!
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#35 - 2013-11-14 16:17:55 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Anybody who claims to understand Caldari culture is lying. Especially if they are Caldari.

What a load of BS.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.

Anatole Madullier
Alexylva Paradox
#36 - 2013-11-14 16:23:32 UTC
Funny enough a lot of the procurement and business intelligence classes I took at the Uni started off with a brief explanation about Caldari culture and history before moving on to business models.

Caldari culture and by proxy the Caldari as people were often painted ruthless, corporate, and uncaring.

I found the last thing to be very far from the truth.

Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#37 - 2013-11-14 16:26:10 UTC
Network graphs aren't networks? I feel robbed :(
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-11-14 16:28:42 UTC
Desiderya wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
Anybody who claims to understand Caldari culture is lying. Especially if they are Caldari.

What a load of BS.


The alternative is that they're mistaken.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Anatole Madullier
Alexylva Paradox
#39 - 2013-11-14 16:32:15 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Network graphs aren't networks? I feel robbed :(


Actually doctor a network graph is a very good tool to map cultural traits and trace back behaviours that might have a common origin.

You could do this for the state, or you could overlay this on the entire cluster. It would provide some very interesting insight however I do feel it would all still be trying to look to the past instead of, as mentioned before, adapting to what the future might bring.

Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#40 - 2013-11-14 16:35:56 UTC
Anatole Madullier wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
Network graphs aren't networks? I feel robbed :(


Actually doctor a network graph is a very good tool to map cultural traits and trace back behaviours that might have a common origin.

You could do this for the state, or you could overlay this on the entire cluster. It would provide some very interesting insight however I do feel it would all still be trying to look to the past instead of, as mentioned before, adapting to what the future might bring.

But where are the relation heuristics? :(

Oh.

Ohh.

I could just make some.