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Dev Blog: Better Living Through Mobile Structures

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Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#141 - 2013-11-14 11:04:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Tessidar
I mean, every once in a greeeeeat while, you'll catch somebody onlining a POS. You know, a large structure, immobile, and also (unlike the yurts) at a default warp-in accessible from the drop down menu. POSes also have onlining timers of somewhere between 7 1/2 and 60 minutes or so. It's extremely rare despite all of these, and when it does happen it's usually because the POS was being put up in a populated area (read: warzone).


So...yeah. 1-minute onlining timers. Gonna be loads of yurts blown up during that time period. Oh yeah. Loads.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#142 - 2013-11-14 11:08:29 UTC
Awesome! Great direction to take the game towards.

Personal depot timers and mechanics might need a bit of rethinking, I can't see how they could ever be destroyed unless the owner happens not to login for a few days, but all in all these are great additions!

.
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#143 - 2013-11-14 11:25:09 UTC
Does the cyno inhibitor thingy affect POS cyno beacons?

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Dav Varan
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#144 - 2013-11-14 11:30:16 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Lolmer wrote:
Shouldn't all of these deployables require "Anchoring I" trained at the least? They are, after all, being anchored in space. This would also disallow Trial Accounts from using them, which is a Good Thing(TM).


The Anchoring skill is required for the two most advanced of these structures (the Cyno Inhib and Siphon). The Depot and Tractor Unit are intended to be fairly entry level so they do not require skills to deploy.



Once the Jita wannabe pies are bored of shooting them and Jita 4.4 has 5'000 ganet dropped depots and tractors around it how long will it take to load the grid ?
CCP Lebowski
C C P
C C P Alliance
#145 - 2013-11-14 11:32:03 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Lebowski
Mara Tessidar wrote:
I mean, every once in a greeeeeat while, you'll catch somebody onlining a POS. You know, a large structure, immobile, and also (unlike the yurts) at a default warp-in accessible from the drop down menu. POSes also have onlining timers of somewhere between 7 1/2 and 60 minutes or so. It's extremely rare despite all of these, and when it does happen it's usually because the POS was being put up in a populated area (read: warzone).


So...yeah. 1-minute onlining timers. Gonna be loads of yurts blown up during that time period. Oh yeah. Loads.
Apologies, I think we have crossed wires here.

My point wasn't that you will happen across pilots onlining Mobile Depots, but that when on grid with a pilot who attempts to deploy a mobile depot it will be difficult for them to deploy it without you killing it before its activation is done, or failing that, reinforcing it very quickly, meaning its fitting service is disabled and it would need to be scooped and launched again before being useful.

CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0

@CCP_Lebowski

Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#146 - 2013-11-14 12:18:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Vyktor Abyss
Just curious about why you chose 2 minutes on the spool up time for cyno jammers?

Why not 15s or 30s or 60s or 90s or even 10 minutes?

The limited range of them kind of suggests them being useful to stop 'blap' dreads etc, but then with 2 minutes to cycle up its highly unlikely to prevent 'hotdroppers' from escalating and getting on grid before the spool up unless the 'defenders' have them spooled up before they get on the field (ie will we need a gate to gate convoy of them in order to move a BS fleet around low?)

I'm just wondering if these things will prevent more fights than making fights more interesting?

Oh, and this is one structure I think should be able to be put close to gates (but not stations)...

Oh and Oh, please make this have some significant visual effect when they activate... Cheers.
Zircon Dasher
#147 - 2013-11-14 12:59:51 UTC
CCP Lebowski wrote:
The fitting service does NOT work during the Depots activation or during reinforcement, meaning the best way to stop it being effective is shooting it before it comes online or shooting it into reinforcement once it is. In addition to this, depots cannot be rescooped while they are activating, giving aggressors a chance to kill them before the owner can do anything to save them.


Does this mean I should bug report fitting services working during reinforcement?

Because, as of last night, it was doable on SISI.

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Vyger
S0utherN Comfort
#148 - 2013-11-14 13:11:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Vyger
Dav Varan wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Lolmer wrote:
Shouldn't all of these deployables require "Anchoring I" trained at the least? They are, after all, being anchored in space. This would also disallow Trial Accounts from using them, which is a Good Thing(TM).


The Anchoring skill is required for the two most advanced of these structures (the Cyno Inhib and Siphon). The Depot and Tractor Unit are intended to be fairly entry level so they do not require skills to deploy.



Once the Jita wannabe pies are bored of shooting them and Jita 4.4 has 5'000 ganet dropped depots and tractors around it how long will it take to load the grid ?


The grid isn't large enough for these things to be deployed in that sort of density. Not when they have to be placed 10km apart.

Besides, the Jita 4-4 undock already has bigger issues.
CCP Lebowski
C C P
C C P Alliance
#149 - 2013-11-14 13:13:25 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Lebowski
Zircon Dasher wrote:
Does this mean I should bug report fitting services working during reinforcement?

Because, as of last night, it was doable on SISI.
Singularity was updated this morning and on the newest build this is working as I outlined. However if you find anything else you think is incorrect or contradicts anything we've said, please do report it and I'll look into it.

Desert Ice78 wrote:
Does the cyno inhibitor thingy affect POS cyno beacons?
The Inhibitor does not affect POS based cynosural generators

CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0

@CCP_Lebowski

Zircon Dasher
#150 - 2013-11-14 13:15:03 UTC
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Zircon Dasher wrote:
Does this mean I should bug report fitting services working during reinforcement?

Because, as of last night, it was doable on SISI.
Singularity was updated this morning and on the newest build this is working as I outlined. However if you find anything else you think is incorrect or contradicts anything we've said, please do report it and I'll look into it.


Good to know. Cheers!

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#151 - 2013-11-14 14:07:07 UTC
Vyktor Abyss wrote:
So having more people living and operating in null sec is a bad thing?

I don't disagree with you though that in some respects these structures devalue aspects of Outposts. My knowledge may be a bit out of date but why would anyone now target an Outposts fitting service for example?

Very much like these structures for the most part, except that they all should require anchoring I, and depots perhaps are a bit too cheap considering their near invulnerability - now make them hackable and we're talking interesting stuff.


I'm fine with more people being in null - but the depot offers an advantage normally available only with significant investment. This'd be OK but it's also almost impossible to kill, tedious to kill when you get your chance, and is not really at risk. The locals deserve a proper chance to fight off the guy using the depot. Including the yurt and whatever was left inside.
Mike Metcalf
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#152 - 2013-11-14 14:08:09 UTC
Jeez Guys, even a GSC requires Anchoring 1, and these things provide MORE utility than that does.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#153 - 2013-11-14 14:10:34 UTC
CCP Lebowski wrote:
The fitting service does NOT work during the Depots activation or during reinforcement, meaning the best way to stop it being effective is shooting it before it comes online or shooting it into reinforcement once it is. In addition to this, depots cannot be rescooped while they are activating, giving aggressors a chance to kill them before the owner can do anything to save them.

If I'm a depot owner and it goes into reinforce, I have an entire two days to scoop and anchor. I spend an entire one minute in space in two days to undo what was done, and the aggressor has no idea when I'm going to do it. This is not a drawback for the owner of the depot. In fact, making them this tedious and difficult to kill means it's not worth trying. This is not a good thing.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#154 - 2013-11-14 14:18:17 UTC
Milton Middleson wrote:
That's literally the opposite of what he said. It's not supposed to be something people fight over. It's supposed to augment a gang's ability operate for an extended period of time in hostile space.
At the expense of the people who fought, worked and paid for that space. Those people who can't kick you out! I'm fine with a yurt. But not one that's horrible to destroy even when the guy who owns it doesn't even log on, and if he does it's basically invulnerable.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#155 - 2013-11-14 14:39:31 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Milton Middleson wrote:
That's literally the opposite of what he said. It's not supposed to be something people fight over. It's supposed to augment a gang's ability operate for an extended period of time in hostile space.
At the expense of the people who fought, worked and paid for that space. Those people who can't kick you out! I'm fine with a yurt. But not one that's horrible to destroy even when the guy who owns it doesn't even log on, and if he does it's basically invulnerable.

No, but you can render it largely useless to him quite quickly... and then focus on killing the person who deployed it.

If he's not around to scoop or redeploy it, it is a trivial matter to kill it... you just have to remember (and consider it important enough) to show up at the right time to pop it. And they are very easy to kill.

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Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#156 - 2013-11-14 14:56:52 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
If he's not around to scoop or redeploy it, it is a trivial matter to kill it... you just have to remember (and consider it important enough) to show up at the right time to pop it. And they are very easy to kill.

If he's not around to scoop or redeploy his mobile base. You just have to remember to wait around two days. For a ten-minute window. Hope the guy completely forgot about his yurt and didn't bother logging on. Then shoot it. If the guy did remember to log on, if you looked away from the yurt for one minute during your two-day guarding of the reinforce timer, the yurt is back without a reinforce timer.

What a great mechanic it is, to rely on someone forgetting to log on for two days so you can shoot their yurt.
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#157 - 2013-11-14 15:52:58 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
At the expense of the people who fought, worked and paid for that space. Those people who can't kick you out! I'm fine with a yurt. But not one that's horrible to destroy even when the guy who owns it doesn't even log on, and if he does it's basically invulnerable.


Mobile Depots do not, by any reasonable criteria, allow you to live in hostile space. You have very limited storage. You have no medical facilities. You have no reshipping capability. The only way to safely store the ship you are in is cloaking or logging off. The locals can trivially kick you out by blowing up your ship. If they can't manage that after Rubicon, they probably couldn't manage it before.

Quote:
What a great mechanic it is, to rely on someone forgetting to log on for two days so you can shoot their yurt.


Or you could, you know, not shoot their depot, since you seem to think it's a waste of time. I don't know why the premise is giving you so much trouble: the depots are meant to facilitate conflict, not drive it. Shooting someone's depot isn't meant to generate a fight, not the least because they are hardly worth defending unless you stuffed them full of deadspace and faction mods (in which case: stop being an idiot and use a secure container).
Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#158 - 2013-11-14 15:59:32 UTC
I can't deny someone fitting services in my space that I own despite an active presence by me and a minimal presence by them. The cost to them is effectively nothing. The cost to me is days of effort to remove a nearly-free fitting services and storage object. And there's nothing stopping them from deploying fifteen or so more.


This really would not be a problem if they were killable.
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#159 - 2013-11-14 16:07:55 UTC
Quote:
I can't deny someone fitting services in my space that I own despite an active presence by me and a minimal presence by them.


Your objection has nothing to do with the difficulty of killing them. Anything larger than a shuttle can carry a depot with it, and pick it up again as soon they're done using it.
Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#160 - 2013-11-14 16:12:28 UTC
Milton Middleson wrote:
Your objection has nothing to do with the difficulty of killing them.


Go back and read my posts.