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Dev Blog: Operation Spectre - Event Breakdown and FAQ

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Author
CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2013-11-14 10:41:28 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
The EVE Live Events team is putting on more live events. Last Thursday, we held an event code named "Operation Spectre", where players were tasked by the Empire navies to go and destroy some pirate research facilities. There were some successes in the event, some problems, and we learned a lot in the process. In order to catch players up on what happened, how the event progressed, how we in the Live Events team had planned it, and much more, CCP Goliath has put together this dev blog to break down what happened.

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@CCP_Eterne ※ @EVE_LiveEvents

Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#2 - 2013-11-14 10:46:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Akrasjel Lanate
Heh

Go back doing the smaller "normal" live events... Blink

Beacause the bigger ones with TIDI look similar to a big null grindfest and players don't need CCP to do them beacause they can do it them self without a bigger problem.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#3 - 2013-11-14 10:48:24 UTC
Been some events going on right there

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Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#4 - 2013-11-14 10:52:19 UTC
Searched the page for "lambs" and "slaughter".

Found neither.
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#5 - 2013-11-14 10:53:08 UTC
o7 folks, looking forward to taking some questions and reading some feedback!

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-11-14 11:00:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
Q: Have you considered getting actual FCs from major alliances involved to help coordinate the event fleets?Surely this would result in a better experience for everyone than just blindly running around. It would also paint a much better picture of high-level fleet organization, and might entice more people to try the low/null side of the game. And there are definitely people willing to do this, if they get, say, a PLEX out of this for several hours of involvement.

On the one hand, you repeatedly complain about the event team being short-staffed and having to do this in their off hours. On the other hand, you have literally thousands of players who do these kind of things daily and have years of experience.
Nomistrav
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-11-14 11:00:02 UTC
Here's my questions:

If Ghost sites are to appear in all areas of space (including Wormhole Space), why was it necessary to bring a live event fleet through null-sec?

Why not reinforce Sarum Prime if that was the staging system to begin with?

Gallente/Minmatar fleets wound up having to fly in the opposite direction when in route from Sarum Prime to Ihal, why weren't the staging systems more specific in proximity based on factional favor?

"As long as space endures,

as long as sentient beings exist,

until then, may I too remain

and dispel the miseries of the world."

~ Vremaja Idama

CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#8 - 2013-11-14 11:02:51 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Q: Have you considered getting actual FCs from major alliances involved to help coordinate the event fleets?Surely this would result in a better experience for everyone than just blindly running around. It would also paint a much better picture of high-level fleet organization, and might entice more people to try the low/mull side of the game. And there are definitely people willing to do this, if they get, say, a PLEX out of this for several hours of involvement.


Involving players willing and able to run fleets for players is definitely one solution to the stewarding problem, but the tricky part comes in having to involve these players earlier than others, and give them information that others wouldn't necessarily be privy to. This is a tricky area for us. Let's hear what you all think - is this an option or does it not sit well with you?

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

Maxxor Brutor
Borderline Procurements
#9 - 2013-11-14 11:04:40 UTC
Q: Why are Live Events always announced so late (usually 24h-ish)? Why not a week or so in advance?

Q: Are there any thoughts to the suggestions of bridging players closer to event systems to mitigate TiDi?


Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#10 - 2013-11-14 11:07:12 UTC
You mention titans, a single bridge, the long range to travel, people falling behind and what not, and the chaos this caused for only half the fleet arriving.

Now it does occur to me that there's another method of jumping vast distances that might be easier to utilise: wormholes.

Surely it's within CCPs power to dev-hack a wormhole or two, from staging systems, to a live event site. They could be given lifetimes for the length of the event, and infinite mass throughput. That way, you don't create as many concentrated corridors of TIDI lag. Get to one of -X- station systems and jump through the conveniently placed wormhole at Planet -Y-.

Lore wise, doesn't Sansha already have this capability?
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#11 - 2013-11-14 11:07:17 UTC
Nomistrav wrote:
Here's my questions:

If Ghost sites are to appear in all areas of space (including Wormhole Space), why was it necessary to bring a live event fleet through null-sec?


Thematically, having the event happen in pirate space was exciting and flavourful. Plus, as mentioned in the blog, we wanted to run an event in null and see how it went as one of our team goals. Finally, while this event is part of the origin story of Ghost Sites, it's not so closely linked to them that it's forced to mimic them.

Nomistrav wrote:

Why not reinforce Sarum Prime if that was the staging system to begin with?


Excellent question, and frankly just an oversight on my part as I said in the blog. Sad At least it won't happen again!

Nomistrav wrote:

Gallente/Minmatar fleets wound up having to fly in the opposite direction when in route from Sarum Prime to Ihal, why weren't the staging systems more specific in proximity based on factional favor?


Ihal was a last minute change we made to stop Sarum Prime and other systems from being severly affected by the load on them. We had to make the decision in minutes and Ihal fit our requirements at the time.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#12 - 2013-11-14 11:10:51 UTC
Maxxor Brutor wrote:
Q: Why are Live Events always announced so late (usually 24h-ish)? Why not a week or so in advance?


I wouldn't say it was "usual" for an event of this size to be announced shortly before it happened. There have been 2 examples of large events in recent memory - this and Battle for Caldari Prime. BFCP was announced very far in advance and also heavily advertised. This one we took a different approach with to see how that approach affected the numbers participating, as well as not having the ramp up time that we had for BFCP. In the future, it will probably still vary from event to event.

Maxxor Brutor wrote:

Q: Are there any thoughts to the suggestions of bridging players closer to event systems to mitigate TiDi?


I believe I mentioned this in the blog as something that we wanted to try in the future.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#13 - 2013-11-14 11:12:03 UTC
Maxxor Brutor wrote:
Q: Why are Live Events always announced so late (usually 24h-ish)? Why not a week or so in advance?


I guess because even more players would show up. Making coordination, TiDi and control even harder.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos

CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#14 - 2013-11-14 11:14:16 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
You mention titans, a single bridge, the long range to travel, people falling behind and what not, and the chaos this caused for only half the fleet arriving.

Now it does occur to me that there's another method of jumping vast distances that might be easier to utilise: wormholes.

Surely it's within CCPs power to dev-hack a wormhole or two, from staging systems, to a live event site. They could be given lifetimes for the length of the event, and infinite mass throughput. That way, you don't create as many concentrated corridors of TIDI lag. Get to one of -X- station systems and jump through the conveniently placed wormhole at Planet -Y-.

Lore wise, doesn't Sansha already have this capability?


We had discussed wormholes in the past, but actually didn't think it was possible to hack in wormholes like that without going into W-space, but after a brief dicussion with CCP Veritas (prompted by him reading your post, congrats!), it's something we will be looking into! Of course it would have to fit thematically with the event, but it could be an option.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

Seismic Stan
Freebooted Junkworks
#15 - 2013-11-14 11:22:43 UTC
I have to say, the questions in this devblog are amazingly well-written. ;)
Darth Kilth
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2013-11-14 11:30:49 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:


We had discussed wormholes in the past, but actually didn't think it was possible to hack in wormholes like that without going into W-space, but after a brief dicussion with CCP Veritas (prompted by him reading your post, congrats!), it's something we will be looking into! Of course it would have to fit thematically with the event, but it could be an option.

An Empire titan, A natural wormhole or even a hidden military Stargate.

The mode of quickly getting an event fleet from point A to B can I guess just be the same item in space spawned by CCP that performs the required function of moving those who use but with a skin and model that fits the current event.
Would a tool like that be possible?
Tas Nok
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2013-11-14 11:40:08 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:

...but the tricky part comes in having to involve these players earlier than others, and give them information that others wouldn't necessarily be privy to. This is a tricky area for us.


I would suggest this is the ONLY solution to not leading herds of HS noobs to the virtual slaughter... The key will likely be in volunteers stepping up and CCP willing to run smaller/quicker events to vet out idiots/spais and develop a really good rapport with folks they hope will step up when you think a cluster-wide event might occur. As for rewards... if you can't get some enjoyment out of the participation and being trusted to keep quiet beforehand... you're just too greedy

Other considerations: not addressed/partly addressed

* CCP already knows the pattern here, ANY event in LS or Null or even W-space will draw 2 crowds, those wanting to participate, and those willing to KM whore on anything that moves, in LS/Null this ofc includes the large alliances that have hot-droped in the past and will not hesitate to do so again... this does not mean all events must be in HS, no.... it means blindly dropping 600 carebears via titan into null will not go as planned...
* enthusiasm will not make up for lack of co-ordination... and that more focused events should take place first. (how about a quick war between serpentis and angels in NPC-null?, or a pocket of contested LS flipping to a pirate faction?)
* Polaris is isolated from all other systems (so its unique in the code) so why not have a unique WH with infinite mass that could open into a class 5 or 6 that CCP knows is empty, and that WH could spawn on command in several systems drawing together several fleets (leaving behind players might be an issue, but smart FC's will leave behind a scan-ship or 3, to get pods, disconnects or other assorted folks out)
* I applaud CCP for 'trying' but I imagine if you had run this past event by the CSM (did you?) or any other number of FW or alliance leaders, the feedback would have been... bwahhhahahahahahaha....really? you're serious?
* whoever came up with the arc for industrialists (you didn't say much) but its far enough outside the box it will likely work... keep listening to them.
* I'm not a personal fan of them, but to shake up the box a bit you might also consider a HS event based around the number of HS-war-dec corps, like allowing them to declare war on Sisters or Mordu or better yet a major empire, and all the faction police would be targets.
* perhaps a cannonball-run hauling event (must have entry fee, and some decently priced cargo)
* repairing the trust between HS dwellers and CCP live events should be high on the list, (I wasn't there, but the killboards made me laugh)
* speaking of being there... I know CCP employees want to go home and cuddle with their loved ones, but I live on the east coast of the US and cannot for the life of me remember the last time I got home in time to see anything but the aftermath of these events. even making an honest effort to have events in US or AUS time zones could go a long way.

Hope that was helpful.

CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#18 - 2013-11-14 11:45:05 UTC
Tas Nok wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:

...but the tricky part comes in having to involve these players earlier than others, and give them information that others wouldn't necessarily be privy to. This is a tricky area for us.


I would suggest this is the ONLY solution to not leading herds of HS noobs to the virtual slaughter... The key will likely be in volunteers stepping up and CCP willing to run smaller/quicker events to vet out idiots/spais and develop a really good rapport with folks they hope will step up when you think a cluster-wide event might occur. As for rewards... if you can't get some enjoyment out of the participation and being trusted to keep quiet beforehand... you're just too greedy

Other considerations: not addressed/partly addressed

* CCP already knows the pattern here, ANY event in LS or Null or even W-space will draw 2 crowds, those wanting to participate, and those willing to KM ***** on anything that moves, in LS/Null this ofc includes the large alliances that have hot-droped in the past and will not hesitate to do so again... this does not mean all events must be in HS, no.... it means blindly dropping 600 carebears via titan into null will not go as planned...
* enthusiasm will not make up for lack of co-ordination... and that more focused events should take place first. (how about a quick war between serpentis and angels in NPC-null?, or a pocket of contested LS flipping to a pirate faction?)
* Polaris is isolated from all other systems (so its unique in the code) so why not have a unique WH with infinite mass that could open into a class 5 or 6 that CCP knows is empty, and that WH could spawn on command in several systems drawing together several fleets (leaving behind players might be an issue, but smart FC's will leave behind a scan-ship or 3, to get pods, disconnects or other assorted folks out)
* I applaud CCP for 'trying' but I imagine if you had run this past event by the CSM (did you?) or any other number of FW or alliance leaders, the feedback would have been... bwahhhahahahahahaha....really? you're serious?
* whoever came up with the arc for industrialists (you didn't say much) but its far enough outside the box it will likely work... keep listening to them.
* I'm not a personal fan of them, but to shake up the box a bit you might also consider a HS event based around the number of HS-war-dec corps, like allowing them to declare war on Sisters or Mordu or better yet a major empire, and all the faction police would be targets.
* perhaps a cannonball-run hauling event (must have entry fee, and some decently priced cargo)
* repairing the trust between HS dwellers and CCP live events should be high on the list, (I wasn't there, but the killboards made me laugh)
* speaking of being there... I know CCP employees want to go home and cuddle with their loved ones, but I live on the east coast of the US and cannot for the life of me remember the last time I got home in time to see anything but the aftermath of these events. even making an honest effort to have events in US or AUS time zones could go a long way.

Hope that was helpful.



It totally was helpful! Thanks for taking the time to write it. I really like the cannonball-run style event (because I'm a bit obsessed with things like the Mongol Rally, Rat Race, etc), and it's a mechanic we've discussed in the team in the past.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#19 - 2013-11-14 11:45:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Desert Ice78
From my casual arm-chair observation I think you've missed the focus of the criticism, as far as curse is concerned at least, that there was no event, because everyone was either dead or had given up before anyone got to the event in order for it to take place.

Next time - do your homework properly first and secondly spawn a Jovian BS fleet to blap the goon gatecamp. Then you might actually have an event.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.

eaterofcheese
The Society of Odd Fellows
#20 - 2013-11-14 11:57:45 UTC
Desert Ice78 wrote:
From my casual arm-chair observation I think you've missed the focus of the criticism, as far as curse is concerned at least, that there was no event, because everyone was either dead or had given up before anyone got to the event in order for it to take place


Absolutely. I (and most of the fleet I was in) was in my pod in a system some jumps from the actual event. I still really enjoyed the whole fleeting process as well as the big fight (which we spectacularly lostBig smile). It would have been nice to get to the event system at least though.

IMO anyone planning this who didn't think there'd be big gate camps on the routes to the event was, frankly, being a bit naive.

Still, it kicked me (a long time HS-er) into joining ENL-A with intention of moving to ENL-I & 0.0 so some good has come of it for me Lol
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