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[Rubicon] New certifcates review

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stoicfaux
#201 - 2013-11-12 21:14:33 UTC
xttz wrote:
Ship masteries are pretty odd at the capital level.

One of my characters shows as having Mastery V for an Anshar, yet it doesn't have Jump Freighters V.

In a similar vein, I have Mastery V for freighters, but only Freighter IV.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#202 - 2013-11-12 21:16:58 UTC
Couldn’t help but notice that I don’t even register a mastery level for the Proteus. This is due to not having Siege Warfare level 5 and siege warfare specialist (got all the others but I am mostly armour).

Feels a bit misleading, might be worth splitting out Warfare Link certificate into separate types, arguably perhaps siege warfare should be required for level 5 but not perhaps for level 1.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#203 - 2013-11-12 22:07:54 UTC
Varenth Esher wrote:
Trajectory Analysis is still required at high levels for certs involving energy turrets when better falloff is nearly pointless for those turret types.

please fix this.


I dont think you realize that tachyons have something like 20km falloff

And it actually comes in handy when using gleam crystals, it actually doubles the range I can actually hit something.

The Drake is a Lie
Varenth Esher
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#204 - 2013-11-13 06:14:20 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
Varenth Esher wrote:
Trajectory Analysis is still required at high levels for certs involving energy turrets when better falloff is nearly pointless for those turret types.

please fix this.


I dont think you realize that tachyons have something like 20km falloff

And it actually comes in handy when using gleam crystals, it actually doubles the range I can actually hit something.


Yes which would make sense if a few levels of it were required for the large energy turret cert, and especially if your going for large beam laser specialization.

However they have level III required for anything more than basic level cert even for small energy turrets.
Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#205 - 2013-11-13 13:51:00 UTC
Quote:
Hi, just checked the last changes in sisi. I found a couple of things, if you could check and give feedback on them I would thank you since some I'm not sure if they are bugs or you want them to be like that.

1 - JFs need a certificate that groups all the passive capacitor related skills because they need cap to jump and recharge rate is an important thing when we are jumping around

2 - In all dreads the tactical weapon reconfiguration skill is missing from any weapon related certificates

3 - sensor compensation skills in supers and titans is wrong since they are invul to eletronic warfare, I think this two ships need a special capital targeting certificate without any sensor compensation skills

4 - Dread with sensor compensation skills also doesn't make sense since when in siege, they are also invul, but this is open for discussion since there are always idiots that can use a dread without a siege module and/or not use it if equiped... :-)

5 - battleship navigation missing the MJD skill

6 - Marauders are missing the new bastion skill in one of the "weapons" certificates

---- Final problem is open for discussion and if possible I would like for you to explain in more details what is CCP position about this issue and why did you choose to configure the certificated like that ----

I'm talking about the strategic cruiser masteries and the certificates each one needs. I was surprised to not have level 1 for this ships, when I have 100k skill points and IV in any other ship other than command ships. Then I notice that there is a warfare link certificate at mastery 1 that requires me to have all 5.

I understand that this ship is a jack of all trades due to the different subsystems. Question is and if I only want to use this ship for combat or only for electronic warfare, and never for command ?

Its my opinion that this ship in the ship view should have 5 children subsystem lines coming from it representing the main 5 subsystems groups with 4 entries each, one for each subsystem and it should be the subsystems that contains masteries and certificates and the strategic cruiser only should contain basic certificates related with the hull itself.

what is ccp position about this issue?


ship issues still pending

Unforgiven Storm for CSM 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13. (If I don't get in in the next 5 years I will quit trying) :-)
justavisit
Phrogs of War
#206 - 2013-11-13 16:51:41 UTC
"Carefull, wall of text"

Generally i like the new certificate system and its implementation. Some of them however are more missleading than helpfull and still need some work imho. (they are not directly connected to flying ships and therefore 'under the radar')


Short example: Science - Datacores
has Astronautic Engineering (it is a useless skill; maybe for the lv 5 'gold' certBlink)
is missing Research Project Management, which is necessary to use more than 1 R&D agent.


Long example: Production - Manufacturing

For level 1 you need:
Anchoring 3
Industry 3
Mass Prod. 1
Production Eff. 1
Mechanics 3
Frigate Construction 3
Science 3

There ist just this single certificate for all various jobs.
On one side that is simplifying it to much and on the other you got stuff in there which many producers will simply never need.

Anchoring .... is not necessary if you are using stations or already set up POSes
Frigate Construction you need just for t2 ships... but not for modules, rigs, ammo, everything else.
... Production Efficiency and Mass Production on 4 or 5 are way more important than these two imho, since they are relevant for all jobs. Like it is now it gives new industrialists the wrong idea that is is necessary to train for all these extras instead of focusing on the essentials.

I suggest either splitting the cert. in different sets or at least moving more specialised skills to higher levels of it.

- 'Core' Manufacturing:
Industry
Production efficiency
(Adv) Mass production,
Supply chain management ... and nothing else on lower levels.
That one is for most t1 stuff and a base skillset for all other extras like:

- Advanced Ship Production:
Science, Frig/Cruiser/Battleship construction, 'Racial' ship engineering.
...for t2 ships

- General T2 Production:
Science, Mechanics, CPU/Powergrid management, various science skills like Plasma Physics, Rocket science etc.

- MAYBE extra certificates for Capital Ships, Outposts ...

Of course vetarans know which skills are important and which ones are not.
Newer players do not. Therefore the certificate system should help them at selecting and training the important skills, rather than just filling their skillques with stuff they do not need (yet).

CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#207 - 2013-11-13 17:15:07 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Ytterbium
Unforgiven Storm wrote:
Hi, just checked the last changes in sisi. I found a couple of things, if you could check and give feedback on them I would thank you since some I'm not sure if they are bugs or you want them to be like that.

1 - JFs need a certificate that groups all the passive capacitor related skills because they need cap to jump and recharge rate is an important thing when we are jumping around

2 - In all dreads the tactical weapon reconfiguration skill is missing from any weapon related certificates

3 - sensor compensation skills in supers and titans is wrong since they are invul to eletronic warfare, I think this two ships need a special capital targeting certificate without any sensor compensation skills

4 - Dread with sensor compensation skills also doesn't make sense since when in siege, they are also invul, but this is open for discussion since there are always idiots that can use a dread without a siege module and/or not use it if equiped... :-)

5 - battleship navigation missing the MJD skill

6 - Marauders are missing the new bastion skill in one of the "weapons" certificates



1 - Fair point, may want to add that.

2 - Done! Removed Tactical Weapon Reconfiguration from Capital Energy Turret, Capital Hybrid Turret, Capital Projectile Turret
and Capital Missile Certificates and instead added a new Certificate named "Tactical Weapon Reconfiguration" that got added to all Dreadnoughts.

3 - Done! Removed all Sensor Compensation skills for all Titans and Supercarriers.

4 - I am a bit torn on that one, I'd be tempted to leave them on dreadnoughts, but I'll ask other Devs for feedback Smile

5 - Last I checked the Battleship Navigation Certificate has the "Micro Jump Drive Operation" skill at level 4. Didn't want to add it in the first levels since it kind of specialized module.

6 - Marauders, Interdictors and Heavy Interdictors don't have specific skills for their unique modules like Siege, Triage or Industrial Core modules. The requirements are included in the ships themselves, so if you can fly the ship, you can fit the module. Thus, no need for a Certificate P

7 - Strategic cruisers and Warfare Links - good point, I can move that to level 4-5 like battlecruisers.

8 - There was no 8 from your list, but adding this anyway because someone from the ISIS blog thread pointed that. Removed the "Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration" skills from Capital Remote Armor Repairer and Capital Remote Shield Booster Certificates, as this module is not required on the Rorqual or Supercarriers. Instead, Carriers now require a new "Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration" Certificate at Masteries level 4 and 5.

9 - Talked with CCP Karkur - she used her magic to fix the Compare Tool window. You can now use drag and drop ships from the ISIS (or from ship show info) directly in the compare tool.


That's it for now - remember Industry Certificates will have to wait until Rubicon 1.1 though.
LtCol Laurentius
The Imperial Sardaukar
#208 - 2013-11-14 02:15:27 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

6 - Marauders, Interdictors and Heavy Interdictors don't have specific skills for their unique modules like Siege, Triage or Industrial Core modules. The requirements are included in the ships themselves, so if you can fly the ship, you can fit the module. Thus, no need for a Certificate P


Say what? Me thinks your brain decieves you Ytterbium! Don't trust it!

High energy physics (required for bastion) has never been required for the Marauders. And just to check, I logged into SISI just now. You havent changed that Lol
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#209 - 2013-11-14 07:17:26 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
That's it for now - remember Industry Certificates will have to wait until Rubicon 1.1 though.


Good. Way better than getting just the one that's in the OP.

Will you post a new thread about the industry certs after Rubicon 1.0? So we have somewhere specific to whine and complain. Lol
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#210 - 2013-11-14 11:09:10 UTC
LtCol Laurentius wrote:


Say what? Me thinks your brain decieves you Ytterbium! Don't trust it!

High energy physics (required for bastion) has never been required for the Marauders. And just to check, I logged into SISI just now. You havent changed that Lol


NeinneinneinneinNEINNEIN! X Achtung NEINNEINACHTUNGWARUMDERBLITZKREIGINFRANKREICHNEINNEIN OopsCryEvilStraightPirateShockedOopsCryCry

Augh, my deficient French brain positively thought Bastion modules required Advanced Weapon Upgrades and Energy Grid Upgrades 5! But NEINNEINNEIN, I actually authored them with High Energy Physics 4.

Anyway, Bastion Modules now require Advanced Weapon Upgrades and Energy Grid Upgrades 5, both of which you unlock with the Marauder hull.

Also, Strategic Cruiser certificates have been tweaked not to require Warfare Links at level1. Instead, Warfare Links will be required for level5 Mastery, like Tech 1 Battlecruisers.
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#211 - 2013-11-14 11:37:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Mashie Saldana
Any chance to get a leadership certificate to show off that part of the skill tree (leadership, wing commander and fleet commander)?

How to win EVE
Xavbian Deepleaf
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#212 - 2013-11-14 12:34:02 UTC
I think something is wrong with this masteries here

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2013/46/1384432396-2013-11-14-12-29-56.png

Am I wrong? :p
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#213 - 2013-11-14 12:58:42 UTC
Mashie Saldana wrote:
Any chance to get a leadership certificate to show off that part of the skill tree (leadership, wing commander and fleet commander)?


Hmm that's an interesting point, could do that when we look at more detailed industry certificates.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#214 - 2013-11-14 12:59:52 UTC
Xavbian Deepleaf wrote:
I think something is wrong with this masteries here

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2013/46/1384432396-2013-11-14-12-29-56.png

Am I wrong? :p


That's because CCP Fozzie forgot to update the Interdictor certificates and remove missiles. I'll file a bug report on that little sneaky scoundrel Twisted.
Manostranoia
Dragoon inc
#215 - 2013-11-14 13:34:40 UTC
there is a problem that I did notice with the ship that is in the expansion. The Paladins gun when looking in real close the are just floating off the ship. I hope some one can fix it before release.
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#216 - 2013-11-15 14:37:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Panhead4411
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Anyway, Bastion Modules now require Advanced Weapon Upgrades and Energy Grid Upgrades 5, both of which you unlock with the Marauder hull.

CCP Ytterbium wrote:
This is made in an effort to respect the philosophy we introduced in the ship skill changes earlier this year. Mainly that Tech 2 ships with specialized modules should have them integrated into the hull training time whenever possible.

Sooo, eventhough that was your general design philosophy when you created this monstrosity...it still managed to be not-that for the first how many months of testing? Yet another example of CCP doing something completely wrong...even according to their own standards...then only deciding to fix it 5 days before it goes live..eventhough there was numerous complaints/questions as to the reasoning behind the skill...since the begining.

I guess we're supposed to be grateful you waited will less than a week before the patch to tell us exactly what we needed to train...even though a certain skill has been set as the requirement for how long on SiSi? And the question of whether or not it would still be that skill was never answered until you posted that yesterday, (so far as i can tell), eventhough it was asked numerous times over the past few weeks. (which btw, it's still listed as requirement on current SiSi build)



Oh well, better late than never i guess...

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#217 - 2013-11-17 03:23:58 UTC
When will requirements and masteries be available in the module info windows?

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Geralt Rittersporn
Geralt Rittersporn Trading
#218 - 2013-11-18 23:23:18 UTC
Add Advanced Spaceship Command to the freighter navigation certifcate and I think jump freighters don't require the capital ship skill.
Elder Ozzian
Perkone
Caldari State
#219 - 2013-11-19 15:49:44 UTC
I noticed that in the mastery tree, most of the ships require scout drones. Why doesn't the phantasm?

I disagree!
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#220 - 2013-11-19 16:00:15 UTC
Elder Ozzian wrote:
I noticed that in the mastery tree, most of the ships require scout drones. Why doesn't the phantasm?


indeed ...

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using