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Does WAR make players leave Eve?

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#501 - 2013-11-13 17:34:15 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
Green colored cars drive away buyers who want red colored cars. Therefore no cars should ever be colored green.


This.

But clearly mr whine-bear will find away to twist it so he can keep preaching his "CCP GIVE ME COMPLETE SAFETY" propeganda.

We have the official CCP statement twice now.

If you are in a corp, you can be wardecced and become a valid target. Period.

If you dont want it, stay in NPC corp or even better, go to low/null/W space.


The mechanic is working as intended, only the carebears dont see it like that and keep whining because EVE isnt like WoW.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#502 - 2013-11-13 17:46:04 UTC
CCP Eterne wrote:
I have been asked to clarify that there are no restrictions against declaring war against any player entity. All player corporations and alliances are considered valid targets of war declarations from other player entities.


Thwnks Eterne for clarifying the rules regarding wars and new players.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Zheng'Yi Sao
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#503 - 2013-11-13 18:42:58 UTC
Znagl wrote:
some CCP staff have released a Video on how to deal with wardecs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q



Lol

I didn't just see that, that was (expletive) hilarious. I think they should add the Dihatsu as a new frigate.

Do months of darkness affect the mind? I'll just let that ride...

(honestly, it was the sunlight that made me batty)

"It's funny the things you people think are mandatory for us, as if we don't do what we do because it's a hilarious good time in a space video game." - Johnny Marzetti
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#504 - 2013-11-13 19:42:59 UTC

- Put war dec fees in an escrow bucket and pay it out to the defending players for aggressor ship value killed. (i.e. come at me bro!)

- Increase NPC corp taxes to 50-60% to incentivize (not force) people hiding out forever in NPC corps to get into player corps

- Players leaving or disbanding a corp remain in corp stasis for 1 week. (i.e. you can run but you cant hide)

- Put a 15-second delay on local chat, combined with the upcoming interceptor warp changes this would mean we could actually bag targets without resorting to logoffski's

- Get rid of the mechanic setting a suspect flagged persons jet cans as takeable by all. The poor little bears already have a green safety setting to prevent going suspect by taking from it right? Lets get can flipping back for christs sake.

For additional win...

- Auto-undock players from stations after 15 minutes who don't respond to a 'Stay docked?' prompt within 10 seconds. (i.e. afk blue ballsing is not cool, your actively playing the game or your not -- logoff!)

- Auto-uncloak players after 15 minutes who don't respond to a 'Stay cloaked?' prompt within 10 seconds. (i.e. see above)

On the flipside double wardec fees, which will further make the proposed escrow fees compelling to folks fighting back.

Would you like to know more?
Rekon X
Doomheim
#505 - 2013-11-13 20:24:24 UTC
CCP Eterne wrote:
I have cleaned up the beginning of this thread. I've called for further moderation from CCL.


Sandbox

Definition of goon - a stupid person Those who can do, those who can't spew
Zheng'Yi Sao
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#506 - 2013-11-13 20:30:42 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

- Put a 15-second delay on local chat, combined with the upcoming interceptor warp changes this would mean we could actually bag targets without resorting to logoffski's


We are trying to train people to watch local, not remove the benefit of doing so. What next? A delay on D-Scan? Work for it...

Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

- Auto-undock players from stations after 15 minutes who don't respond to a 'Stay docked?' prompt within 10 seconds. (i.e. afk blue ballsing is not cool, your actively playing the game or your not -- logoff!)

- Auto-uncloak players after 15 minutes who don't respond to a 'Stay cloaked?' prompt within 10 seconds. (i.e. see above)


If I want to go AFK, I dock up. I can't speak for cloakers. I need some point where I can get beer, walk the dog, have a smoke, do whatever. We are trying to train people to dock up when they go AFK. Don't penalize people for it. Who says I have to log off? CCP didn't put a logoff timer in the game.

Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

On the flipside double wardec fees, which will further make the proposed escrow fees compelling to folks fighting back.


No. Fighting is what people want me to do. If they cannot catch me, they cannot fight me. If I am too slippery to fight, there is no point in wardecing me as it is simply a waste of time. Continuing buisness as usual, while thumbing my nose at the hunters is more fun.

"It's funny the things you people think are mandatory for us, as if we don't do what we do because it's a hilarious good time in a space video game." - Johnny Marzetti
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#507 - 2013-11-13 20:36:10 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

- Put war dec fees in an escrow bucket and pay it out to the defending players for aggressor ship value killed. (i.e. come at me bro!)

- Increase NPC corp taxes to 50-60% to incentivize (not force) people hiding out forever in NPC corps to get into player corps

- Players leaving or disbanding a corp remain in corp stasis for 1 week. (i.e. you can run but you cant hide)

- Put a 15-second delay on local chat, combined with the upcoming interceptor warp changes this would mean we could actually bag targets without resorting to logoffski's

- Get rid of the mechanic setting a suspect flagged persons jet cans as takeable by all. The poor little bears already have a green safety setting to prevent going suspect by taking from it right? Lets get can flipping back for christs sake.

For additional win...

- Auto-undock players from stations after 15 minutes who don't respond to a 'Stay docked?' prompt within 10 seconds. (i.e. afk blue ballsing is not cool, your actively playing the game or your not -- logoff!)

- Auto-uncloak players after 15 minutes who don't respond to a 'Stay cloaked?' prompt within 10 seconds. (i.e. see above)

On the flipside double wardec fees, which will further make the proposed escrow fees compelling to folks fighting back.


So basically you want to make corps prisons via wardecs.

Oh you forgot a rule, if you are in a war you cannot jump clone. We can't have players running to the other side of the galaxy on you can we?

Roll

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#508 - 2013-11-13 21:37:41 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

- Put war dec fees in an escrow bucket and pay it out to the defending players for aggressor ship value killed. (i.e. come at me bro!)

- Increase NPC corp taxes to 50-60% to incentivize (not force) people hiding out forever in NPC corps to get into player corps

- Players leaving or disbanding a corp remain in corp stasis for 1 week. (i.e. you can run but you cant hide)

- Put a 15-second delay on local chat, combined with the upcoming interceptor warp changes this would mean we could actually bag targets without resorting to logoffski's

- Get rid of the mechanic setting a suspect flagged persons jet cans as takeable by all. The poor little bears already have a green safety setting to prevent going suspect by taking from it right? Lets get can flipping back for christs sake.

For additional win...

- Auto-undock players from stations after 15 minutes who don't respond to a 'Stay docked?' prompt within 10 seconds. (i.e. afk blue ballsing is not cool, your actively playing the game or your not -- logoff!)

- Auto-uncloak players after 15 minutes who don't respond to a 'Stay cloaked?' prompt within 10 seconds. (i.e. see above)

On the flipside double wardec fees, which will further make the proposed escrow fees compelling to folks fighting back.



1st: Yes. I like that idea.

2nd: Yes. It will gently push more players into player corps, making them grow. Or there will be hundreds more 1 man corps, which means that PvP guys will be too busy wardeccing others.

3rd: 1 week is a bit much, but don't make it instant.

4th: YES. Not only does it work for high-sec, but roaming null-sec will be more fun too because intel channels that cross multiple regions will become less accurate unless someone actually gets a visual on you

5th: I vote for the removal of that stupid safety system. What was wrong with the old system, where you just had to LEARN what you could and couldn't do. This is the perfect example of CCP catering the idiots.

6th / 7th: NO. For same reason already mentioned. I dock up and go AFK for a smoke or something. Or most of the time I'm docked and busy chatting in a 1001 chat channels, I don't want annoying pop ups. I already find the DT warnings annoying as hell.

8th: Mixed: Yes if point 1 is also added, otherwise no.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Burning Furry
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#509 - 2013-11-14 00:53:12 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

- Auto-undock players from stations after 15 minutes who don't respond to a 'Stay docked?' prompt within 10 seconds. (i.e. afk blue ballsing is not cool, your actively playing the game or your not -- logoff!)


Would this also apply to jita/amarr trading alts? Or is it only for those under war dec?

If only for those under dec, how would you prevent abuse? I.e: Deccing to give an advantage over your trading rivals?
Burning Furry
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#510 - 2013-11-14 00:56:19 UTC
J'Poll wrote:

5th: I vote for the removal of that stupid safety system. What was wrong with the old system, where you just had to LEARN what you could and couldn't do. This is the perfect example of CCP catering the idiots.
.


I would agree if eve had a well designed UI, which sadly it doesn't.

There are too many examples of "destroy/delete button" being placed directly beside the "use" button.

The menu bars are tiny, and if you're in a hurry and you missclick by 1/2 millimeters and this causes you to break some security rule, is this your fault or the result of bad UI design?

Improve the UI, then remove the safety system.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#511 - 2013-11-14 06:25:13 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Burning Furry wrote:
J'Poll wrote:

5th: I vote for the removal of that stupid safety system. What was wrong with the old system, where you just had to LEARN what you could and couldn't do. This is the perfect example of CCP catering the idiots.
.


I would agree if eve had a well designed UI, which sadly it doesn't.

There are too many examples of "destroy/delete button" being placed directly beside the "use" button.

The menu bars are tiny, and if you're in a hurry and you missclick by 1/2 millimeters and this causes you to break some security rule, is this your fault or the result of bad UI design?

Improve the UI, then remove the safety system.


Weird. Ive played for over 2 years with NO security system and NEVER I misclicked or did someone stupid.

The ones that make such a mistake....well too bad, should have be more careful.

And the UI is fine. If stuff is too small, you can increase the scale in the ESC menu.

So again, you complain that CCP should change a feature back to the good way too cater SOME players.l, namely those to stupid to read what they are clicking on.

And name me 1 single menu...only 1...where the delete and use is right under each other and where the delete one doesnt have a pop up to warn you about it.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#512 - 2013-11-14 10:02:39 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Burning Furry wrote:
Er... by playing EVE i kinda, well...am an eve player? Question
Only in the sense that trying a salad and hating it makes you vegetarian.

Quote:
You've not answered the question.
Yes he is: you're confusing a non-sale with a lost customer. Someone who wasn't interested in the product is not lost because they were never established as a customer to begin with.



Exaclty what I was trying to say, but with a different type of humor :P

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#513 - 2013-11-14 10:03:47 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
They could undokc in cheap ships and have FUN, there is nothing madochist about it.

usually people does not consider stupid death without chances as "fun"



Did they even try to KNOW if they have or not have chances? You might have a very low chance on the firs time you try. But if you never try .. your chances will be very low FOREVER!!!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#514 - 2013-11-14 10:05:48 UTC
Burning Furry wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Burning Furry wrote:
Er... by playing EVE i kinda, well...am an eve player? Question
Only in the sense that trying a salad and hating it makes you vegetarian.

Quote:
You've not answered the question.
Yes he is: you're confusing a non-sale with a lost customer. Someone who wasn't interested in the product is not lost because they were never established as a customer to begin with.


There is more to eve than pvp if you haven't noticed.

Just because you don't pve/mine/explore/etc doesn't mean they don't exist.

I like those things. Those things are in eve. I login and use eve in order to play at these things. I therefore play eve.
Maybe not the same eve as you, but eve nonetheless

To quote the thread title: Does WAR make players leave Eve?

By definition, if you were in the game and had paid for it, then you were a customer. Anyone who has paid money is a customer, interested or not.

If people leave due to war (going back to thread title, try to keep up) then they are a lost customer, not a non-sale.



But you are not an EVE player if you are not here for EVE> And eve is a game that includes PVP as an all encompassing activity. If you are here for mining ONLY you are not here for eve, therefore not an EVE player.

Just because I hang out with a girl, that doe snto mean I am MARRIED to her, i nee d to get into the whole package to get to be called that.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#515 - 2013-11-14 10:06:38 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Yes. Because mining an asteroid belt in empire is SO MUCH different then in nullsec.

1) NPC rats in empire are easy to tank and kill - 0.0 rats can eat semi-tanked hulk in seconds
2) there is not many suicide gankers in empire - every "non-blue" player in 0.0 is "99% enemy"
3) CONCORD limits ships gankers will use in empire - in 0.0 people can drop titan to kill your cruiser
4) you can sell ore/minerals right in station of system you are mining - in 0.0 you can be denied to dock at all (or you can be camped so you can't undock) + what will you do with ore/minerals? It's not that local people will buy it

J'Poll wrote:
Yes. Because missions in NPC nullsec are so different then the empire ones.

exactly. Let's say you will lose your shiny pirate/faction BS too soon to even try

J'Poll wrote:
Yes. Because probing works in a totally different way in nullsec.

exactly.
you see probes in space:
- empire: do you see any wartargets in local? Yes: hide. No - ignore probes.
- 0.0: you see probes on scan - hide immediately, go to agent and stop mission, because next time you warp there you will meet piwates

and again: we are speaking about n00bs. For them it's completely different situation than for experienced players

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#516 - 2013-11-14 10:10:09 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
They could undokc in cheap ships and have FUN, there is nothing madochist about it.

usually people does not consider stupid death without chances as "fun"


Someone with a kill board full of cheap ships and noob pods wants exactly that.

So staying in the dock and denying them is a perfectly valid thing to do.


My recommendation to noobs getting decced is to use wormholes to get to deep null and see if the griefers have the balls to look for them there.





Stop with this Griefer concept. We play this PVP game to have PVP. We use wars becuase we liek small scale PVP. BAsically we have 2 types of targets, the good fight ones, that we war dec to have fun, and the flying pinnatas ones that we kill to loot and pay for our wars.

So There is not such thing as people war deccign corps with 4-5 noob that can only fly frigates. No one wastes time with that unless one of the members has pissed him.

If you do not fight back or do not fly stupidly expensive ships then you wil be very very rarely war decced, unless your behavior makes someone hate you and pay for us to war dec you.


"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#517 - 2013-11-14 10:11:31 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Yes. Because mining an asteroid belt in empire is SO MUCH different then in nullsec.

1) NPC rats in empire are easy to tank and kill - 0.0 rats can eat semi-tanked hulk in seconds
2) there is not many suicide gankers in empire - every "non-blue" player in 0.0 is "99% enemy"
3) CONCORD limits ships gankers will use in empire - in 0.0 people can drop titan to kill your cruiser
4) you can sell ore/minerals right in station of system you are mining - in 0.0 you can be denied to dock at all (or you can be camped so you can't undock) + what will you do with ore/minerals? It's not that local people will buy it

J'Poll wrote:
Yes. Because missions in NPC nullsec are so different then the empire ones.

exactly. Let's say you will lose your shiny pirate/faction BS too soon to even try

J'Poll wrote:
Yes. Because probing works in a totally different way in nullsec.

exactly.
you see probes in space:
- empire: do you see any wartargets in local? Yes: hide. No - ignore probes.
- 0.0: you see probes on scan - hide immediately, go to agent and stop mission, because next time you warp there you will meet piwates

and again: we are speaking about n00bs. For them it's completely different situation than for experienced players



And they wil lremain noobs until they face the game!


You are defending that someoen should not make sex because he/she is a virgin, locking him in an infinite failure loop.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Burning Furry
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#518 - 2013-11-14 10:40:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Burning Furry
.
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#519 - 2013-11-14 20:12:06 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:

But you are not an EVE player if you are not here for EVE> And eve is a game that includes PVP as an all encompassing activity. If you are here for mining ONLY you are not here for eve, therefore not an EVE player.

Just because I hang out with a girl, that doe snto mean I am MARRIED to her, i nee d to get into the whole package to get to be called that.


While your analogy is funny, it's a bad one. When someone signs onto Eve, they are NOT entering into any sort of contract to play the game the way you think it should be played. Stop telling people how they're supposed to play in the sandbox.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
Karrl Tian
Doomheim
#520 - 2013-11-14 20:23:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Karrl Tian
March rabbit wrote:


and again: we are speaking about n00bs. For them it's completely different situation than for experienced players


Yeah, the n00bs usually react to the war dec with excitement, "OMG we're gonna fight people," probably because up to this point even their most expensive ships are quickly replaceable. The experienced players, meanwhile, are wringing their hands about losing their prized marauders/faction BS's and their mining fleet while screaming at the n00bs not to undock and "Feed them kills" before they bail on the corp left and right.