Player Features and Ideas Discussion

RLM's as is, when compared to other cruiser size modules that can reliably kill frigs have much less dps.

The only ships where this is not AS TRUE, is ships with kinetic missile bonus that APPLIES to lights aswell as the obvious hml and ham variants. THEN if you fill with fury, the dps stats start looking comparable to other racial med weapon systems (but STILL subpar).

now, all of you experts, for a moment pretend you don't have 100mil sp's spread across all ship types and weapon systems in game. pretend for a moment that you are a caldari pilot only. As a caldari pilot, you have two options when flying anything larger than a dessi to kill frigs on par with other racial equivalents: rlm's and blasters. I say blasters, kind of as a joke, but a blaster boat with CAN sometimes kill certain frigs if flown right. but lest say as a caldari pilot you pick the obvious rlm choice, since caldari ships that can fit blasters don't get thing like tracking bonuses.
IF as a caldari pilot you like to use rlm's to kill frigs, and coincidentaly cruisers as last ditch, once these changes take effect, you will be met with a ceiling on how many frigs you will be able to kill in a set period of time. Remember other racial weapons systems don't face this 'cap'. An ac or blaster boat, if fit for strictly killing frigs WILL NOT face a 'CAP' on how many frigs it can potentially kill in a 1-2minute window. So, as a caldari pilot flying in a cruiser, you find yourself with a weapons system that is good at one thing only, and that's killing a set # of frigs in a set period of time, and then being forced to leave grid/die/play poker/whatever.

for pvp, there are generally better things to fly than rlm caracals and cerb's unless you are only fighting frigs/cruisers. The minute a bc/bs shows up, your dps is far below what it SHOULD be to expect to kill those targets efficiently. That's AS IS.

With the new change, rlm's will ONLY be good for killing frigs, and even then, only a 'CAPPED' amount of damage can be expected in a given time frame. ac/blaster/pulse don't have this problem. they do have tracking to worry about, but then missiles have speed and sig to worry about, so they ALMOST offset, with missiles having the advantage IF your using the right size for your target. THATS a BIG IF.


all races have strengths, but caldari are the easiest to fly, and have the best ships for pve if your a noob, because they don't require extensive knowledge of ingame mechanics to have fun flying. they usually have plenty of cpu for fitting, they always hit for SOME damage, even if its ****, and they can fit some of the best passive tanks in the game....
HINT HINT, caldari if OP at anything, are OP for noobs trying to learn the game, and for pve in particular.

Ever since the hml nerf, you all know caldari have been largely knocked off their pedestal for pvp, tengu being a constant exception to all rules< lol.

the last great thing caldari had going for it was the rlm ships, for frig clearing. for EVERY other in-game activity, caldari falls in 2nd at best, but generally 3rd or 4th when compared to other racial ship types/tactics.

but EVERYONE always knew caracals where not to be tampered with if your in a frig/dessi. if your in anything else, you had a damn good likelyhood of winning. even frig GANGS had to think twice about caracals, bc of the potential tank they can fit while ALSO dishing death. Post change however, caracals will be manageable by even frig gangs, as the frig fc can simple do some quick math based on established #'s and say, yea, we can win, we'll lose exactly 3 ships, but he will be dead once caught. how is that 'added tension to gameplay'?

the way I see it, caracal and cerb rlm fits for SOLO are absolutely DEAD on arrival. Always.

in small gangs its going to be a math and nano game. it has huge potential with huge consequences. not necessarily something eve CANT support, so go ahead, add a NEW module, but don't **** up the original. IF the original is so great for caldari pilots it IS BECAUSE hml and ham are so inconsequential to small targets. Arty pilots don't have to wonder if even with 0 m/s transversal 'will my volley only hit for .x% dmg. ham and hml do indeed have to consider something else in that scenario: speed and sig. The comparisons mean nothing if not given context and all you forum/eft warriors are well aware of that fact.

plz stop acting like you are unable to fill in the blanks in certain scenarios ppl are trying to describe(it makes you look scarily similar to trolls). be honest when saying why you like the change....it means x # of rlm ships will be able to tear down even hi tanked ships of any size, IF you bring the right # to fill in 'x' and thus offset the local/logi rep rate. yea, you kno you've thought it; even ab logi will tremble when seeing 5x cerbs land. even 10x drakes would struggle to make that tremble happen. And you all kno why.

Eve is largely a #'s game, and that's ok. this just hurts caldari pilots particularly bad, when they hardly warrant such attention, at least when talking about rapid light missiles. everyone ive shown the rlm tengu to just roll their eyes, and for generally good reasons, but vs a lvl 4 full of various sized ships, no other caldari ship can manage the targets aswell as the rlm can. Even arty ships when flown right can insta pop frigs in lvl 4's, rails and lasers too. There is NO caldari ship that can enter a lvl 4 expecting to tank the damage that can ALSO insta pop frigs. doesn't exist.

It's like you've never been in a fight where there are more enemies than friendlies on grid.....

I don't like pvp in this game. I like pvppp or pppvppppppppppppp..... There's not really a lot of ships that can pull that off, and the ships that can pull it off require good decision making and good piloting skill, otherwise you will die in a fire.

Through these changes to rapid lights, CCP is taking 4 of those few ships out of the game. RIP Caracal, Nosprey, Scythe fleet, and Cerberus. :(

Don't get me wrong, in a way, I like the idea of the changes. They definitely have some uses and look like they'll be very useful in some niche roles. But they're taking a good thing out of the game to make this change.

If this goes through, can I get a bunch of level 5 support skills in missiles taken back and put into equivalent gunnery skills? And switch Caldari cruiser 5 to Amarr cruiser 5? I spent a few months training these skills to fly Caracals, only to have the skills become unnecessary and the ship I was training for taken from me in such a terrible way.....

Aren't Torpedoes already obsolete thanks to the new Cruise Missiles?

heh, these things are gonna be pretty good actually..
beats getting a 15% ROF nerf /cringe

A straight 15% ROF nerf would correspond to a dps reduction of 13%. This nerf reduces dps by around 20% and adds a 40 second reload that prevents ammo switching on the fly in return for a useless gimmick. A straight ROF/damage nerf would have been *vastly* preferable.

Is it me or it seems that heavy and heavy assault missiles can be patched (not yet fixed) and temporarily made usable almost over night - simply by altering the damn numbers (approximate values given).

Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Explosion velocity: 190*
Explosion radius: 75*

Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Explosion velocity: 150*
Explosion radius: 120*

Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Explosion velocity: 210*
Explosion radius: 60*

Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Explosion velocity: 165*
Explosion radius: 100*

--
*with good skills and implants

As i mentioned earlier, you're talking utter rubbish. Assuming a 3 BCS caracal shooting fury ammo with T2 launchers and maxed skills:

New caracal: 18 volleys of 1008 damage each over 50 seconds, followed by 40 seconds of reloading = 18144 damage, or 202 dps

Current caracal: ROF = 3.8s, so you get 90/3.8 = 23.7 volleys in 90 seconds. Rounding down to 23, that's 23*1008 = 23184 damage, or 258 dps

202/258 = 0.78

Imagine you have precision missiles loaded and you see a cruiser on d-scan, what do you do? Or worse, you have fury missiles loaded and there are 2 interceptors speeding your way... how are you going to react?

I hope you now realize why your math is wrong and how crappy this new missile system is.

very well. commense flipping of numbers!

18 launches at 1008 damage each = 18144 damage.

in the interest of not making the seconds rounded, being so important, we should figure out how long these launchers will actually fire for.

we know these new launchers are going to have a "base" rate of fire of 6.24s before you apply mods and skills.

currently the launchers have a base RoF of 9.6 so taking the proportion of this value and comparing it with the new launchers and then working things out against the 3.7 RoF with BCU's and RoF bonuses on caracal gives us...

18 launches with 2.405 intervals gives us 43.29 seconds of FIRE ZE MISSILES!

so, accordingly we'll be doing 18144 damage in 43.29 seconds and that stays constant for the 40 second reload.

so, how many more launches would current LML's get in the same time frame?

well we're talking 83.29 seconds in total so, at 3.7 seconds duration we will get...

83.29/3.7 = 22.5

which, at the same damage value of 1008 for 4 launches gives us a total of 22690 damage over the same timeframe.

18144/22690 = 0.79

well dang, happily I'll tip my head over to a 20% damage decrease over the relevent timeframe. funkeh.

so accordingly I pass my appologies over my mismatched numbers. does this steer me clear of my opinions on this matter however? not really, burst DPS still has significant advantages AND disadvantages over the prolonged dps of the traditional format.

I will however concede that there has very well been a bit of an overall long term dps nerf, but the raw DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA! of the 44 seconds, in my mind, more than compensates for this loss.

the concern about having teribly difficultly adjusting missile type to your targets has, after all, been anknowledged by CCP rise and with luck we should see a solution to this problem, however the intrinsic advantage of dealing significant quantities of damage to your targets in such spectacularly short periods of time SHOULD NOT BE DISCOUNTED.

so, as i said i'm sorry for ballocksed numberage in my previous post and this post should serve as testimant for my willingness to doublecheck my facts ^^

We were not attakcign your poitn. Jsut the data you were usign to defend it, because other people use that same data to make stupid claims ( as some others made same mistake of usign the dps and believing in 50 secodns time to make other assertions)