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Why did CCP make Amarrian drones suck compared to other races?

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Job Valador
Professional Amateurs
#21 - 2013-10-21 19:20:40 UTC
Amarr drone user checking in.

I use them for two reasons. They look awesome, and I am an amarrian elitist.


Long live jamyl!!

"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."
Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
#22 - 2013-10-21 20:13:57 UTC
Well there really is no such thing as empire specific drones realistically speaking.
Yes there is a skill dedicated to each factions drones but yeh nothing mind blowing.
The only problem I really see is Amarrian scout drones, anything between scout and sentry is garbage "Welcome to drones!!".
Janna Sway
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2013-11-13 00:32:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Janna Sway
Marcus Walkuris wrote:
Well there really is no such thing as empire specific drones realistically speaking.
Yes there is a skill dedicated to each factions drones but yeh nothing mind blowing.
The only problem I really see is Amarrian scout drones, anything between scout and sentry is garbage "Welcome to drones!!".


However, Amarr pilots have a general ship setup option that turns Amarr drones into the most OP of all drones for a particular purpose and a good reason to not buff them.
Janna Sway
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2013-11-13 00:35:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Janna Sway
Antonio Steele wrote:
I'm sure many have noticed how few people suggest using amarrian drones for anything. The list of most damaging drones goes: Gallente, Caldari, Minmatar, Amarr. The List of drones from slowest to fastest goes: Gallente, Caldari, Amarr, Minmatar. The list of worst to best tracking goes: Gallente, Caldari, Amarr, Minmatar. The list of best total HP goes: Gallente, Caldari, Amarr, Minmatar (amarr only has a slight HP advantage over Minmatar.

As you can see, minmatar drones are faster, track better, and deal more damage than amarrian drones. Amarrian drones only top them in hp, but only slightly. I don't get why CCP would make them the weakest drone damage wise when they are not the fastest or best tracking drones either.

Also Amarrian sentries have the second worst range, second worst damage, and second best tracking. I see no reason to use them over Gardes or bouncers
I guess the only reason to use them would be for EM damage, but usually hobs perform better as targets weak to EM are weak to thermal as well.

I'm just wondering why the amarr drones were designed this way. Besides possibly needing EM damage type I see no reason to use them over Minmatar drones.

Has CCP ever explained this? Does anyone here have a decent explanation?


Everything you mentioned is right "on paper", but Eve is not two-dimentional and not played on paper.
Well, I learned to adore Amarr drones. Just have to know for what purpose they are plainly overpowered and use them for that purpose.
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#25 - 2013-11-13 03:54:15 UTC
I'll be sad when CCP has time to balance drones. They will hit sentry drones with a nerfbat from hell. their tracking will be so **** the gallente ships will be **** once more. goodby domi and ishtar i loved you :(
Zeba
Honourable East India Trading Company
#26 - 2013-11-13 05:44:59 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Hornet IIs are definitely an often-overlooked gem.


Shhhh.
Grandma Squirel
#27 - 2013-11-13 06:36:15 UTC
From what I see on the field for PVP:

Light:
Warriors - Swarms to blot out the sun
Hobgoblins - Uncommon, but respected choice for those going for max potential small drone damage
Acolye - Occasionally used by CVA for RP reasons

Medium:
Hammerhead - Rare, like hobgoblins, in the right circumstance, they provide the most damage for 50 drone bandwidth ships. Most people will take 5 Warriors, and some ECM drones instead
Other medium drones are so rare your likely to confuse your target about what the drone does.

Heavy:
Ogre - Don't see very much since sentries became FOTM, but if your using heavies, this is probably what you have.
Beserker - Rare, but you do see them from time to time

Sentry:
Garde - Everyone uses, first choice for large drone damage dealing
Bouncer/Curator - Long range choice, dunno which is most popular

Other Drones:
EC-300 - Everywhere
Shield/Armor - Usually only with bigger fleets, with really dedicated logi
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2013-11-13 08:56:23 UTC
Red Teufel wrote:
I'll be sad when CCP has time to balance drones. They will hit sentry drones with a nerfbat from hell. their tracking will be so **** the gallente ships will be **** once more. goodby domi and ishtar i loved you :(



I hope you are wrong on that. Sentry drones are the hardest drones to trian and have a large drawback on mobile gangs, therefore its natural for them to be the most powerful form of drones.




A simple yet effective nerf would be to increase their sginature, so they are easier to lock and shoot. Static drones shoudl be easy to kill. and that would balance things pretty well

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Zeba
Honourable East India Trading Company
#29 - 2013-11-13 17:58:12 UTC
Grandma Squirel wrote:
Other Drones:
EC-300 - Everywhere


Do these things even work anymore?

On the test server I have yet to get a single jam with them no matter what I sic em on.
L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
#30 - 2013-11-13 18:43:29 UTC
Zeba wrote:
Grandma Squirel wrote:
Other Drones:
EC-300 - Everywhere


Do these things even work anymore?

On the test server I have yet to get a single jam with them no matter what I sic em on.


Pretty sure that the general rule is that they never work FOR you, but always seem to work AGAINST you.

Your experience sounds normal to me :)
Rekkr Nordgard
Steelforge Heavy Industries
#31 - 2013-11-13 18:48:14 UTC
I use Acolytes and Infiltrators against Sansha combat anomalies and they work quite well there.
Zeba
Honourable East India Trading Company
#32 - 2013-11-13 18:54:20 UTC
L'ouris wrote:
Zeba wrote:
Grandma Squirel wrote:
Other Drones:
EC-300 - Everywhere


Do these things even work anymore?

On the test server I have yet to get a single jam with them no matter what I sic em on.


Pretty sure that the general rule is that they never work FOR you, but always seem to work AGAINST you.

Your experience sounds normal to me :)


Oh they used to work a charm but that was nearly three years ago.

Just assuming during that time some sort of nerf happened as a flight of five ecm 300 used to reliably jam cruisers and down and now I can't even get a single jam on a frigate.

Not that I'm complaining though as I always thought they were a bit cheap to get out of fights or lock down a ship so it couldn't fight back.
Janna Sway
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2013-11-13 19:56:12 UTC
Grandma Squirel wrote:
From what I see on the field for PVP:

Light:
Warriors - Swarms to blot out the sun
Hobgoblins - Uncommon, but respected choice for those going for max potential small drone damage
Acolye - Occasionally used by CVA for RP reasons


I rofl'd about this so hard! :DD
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#34 - 2013-11-13 20:02:33 UTC
Why did CCP make Amarrian drones suck compared to other races?


Probably for lore reasons. For hundreds of years, Amarrian drones were simply known as "Minmatar." Since many of the Minmatar have left, Amarrians have been behind the curve in constructing mechanical substitutes.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2013-11-13 22:09:34 UTC
Because CCP derped and made a typo, and then has been too lazy to change it ever since (no really, that is actually why!)
Mnemosyne Gloob
#36 - 2013-11-13 22:22:37 UTC
Grandma Squirel wrote:
From what I see on the field for PVP:

Light:
Warriors - Swarms to blot out the sun
Hobgoblins - Uncommon, but respected choice for those going for max potential small drone damage
Acolye - Occasionally used by CVA for RP reasons

Medium:
Hammerhead - Rare, like hobgoblins, in the right circumstance, they provide the most damage for 50 drone bandwidth ships. Most people will take 5 Warriors, and some ECM drones instead
Other medium drones are so rare your likely to confuse your target about what the drone does.

Heavy:
Ogre - Don't see very much since sentries became FOTM, but if your using heavies, this is probably what you have.
Beserker - Rare, but you do see them from time to time


Really? I must be imagining the stacks of minnie/gallente drones of all sizes in my hangar (that i mostly picked up).

it's generally: minnie -> mobility / gallente -> damage. Mostly people will in med/heavy category only go for the gallente drones tho.
Janna Sway
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2013-11-13 23:51:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Janna Sway
Summary would be:

Only Minmatar and Gallente drones are worthy and the deciding factor is minmatar's speed or gallente's damage.
caldari are ok, if you cannot find minmatar or gallente drones.
Amarr drones are basically worthless and only used by CVA for roleplaying purposes. :D

Nobody can think of any situations where Amarr drones, like acolytes, would be the best choice? :D
Possibly one situation pops up, then another...and another, and eventually things get a bit clearer... :)
Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
#38 - 2013-11-14 06:31:18 UTC
It's not combat drones, but I do use Acolytes EV-300 at times. It's like having a small neut on the target and I would like to believe it helps.
Grandma Squirel
#39 - 2013-11-14 06:42:55 UTC
Janna Sway wrote:
Summary would be:

Only Minmatar and Gallente drones are worthy and the deciding factor is minmatar's speed or gallente's damage.
caldari are ok, if you cannot find minmatar or gallente drones.
Amarr drones are basically worthless and only used by CVA for roleplaying purposes. :D

Nobody can think of any situations where Amarr drones, like acolytes, would be the best choice? :D
Possibly one situation pops up, then another...and another, and eventually things get a bit clearer... :)


If you know in advance what the resist profile of your PVP target is going to look like, a non-Gallente/Minmatar drone may be worthwhile, but in PvP, even if you know the ship type, you likely don't know what the weakest resist it, and for a caldari/amarr drone to win out requires a substantial resist hole. For an Acolyte to out dps a Hob, requires that the target have 30% higher thermal resist than EM (0% vs 30%). The T1 shield resist profile is 0% 20% EM/Thermal, so against a ship with no hardeners, the hobgoblin is still doing 14% more dps to shield, and far out performing in untanked armor. You should assume that any tank modules will only reduce the relative size of the EM hole in shield. Yeah, some times people choose to ignore the EM hole, but you would need intel that most players wont have to exploit that. Or you could just bring Hobs.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#40 - 2013-11-14 06:51:25 UTC
Janna Sway wrote:
Marcus Walkuris wrote:
Well there really is no such thing as empire specific drones realistically speaking.
Yes there is a skill dedicated to each factions drones but yeh nothing mind blowing.
The only problem I really see is Amarrian scout drones, anything between scout and sentry is garbage "Welcome to drones!!".


However, Amarr pilots have a general ship setup option that turns Amarr drones into the most OP of all drones for a particular purpose and a good reason to not buff them.


What purpose is this, precisely?

Aside from nuking Sansha rats, I can't really imagine what this might be.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

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