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Mobile Siphon Unit - Feedback

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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
#41 - 2013-11-03 07:40:08 UTC
So with the added requirements on sisi, it takes over a day for a siphon to break even on dysprosium (the most expensive moon mineral).

All it takes to kill one of these is to log on an alt and use a single pos gun.

So.....it takes 0 effort to log in an alt once a day. If it's not worth siphoning dyspro (46101 isk/unit), why would anyone bother siphoning:
cadmium (6000 isk/unit)
caesium (4900 isk/unit)
chromium (4000 isk/unit
cobalt (1500 isk/unit)
hafnium (9500 isk/unit)
hydrocarbs (150 isk/unit)
mercury (6200 isk/unit)
neodymium (33000 isk/unit)
platinum (3000 isk/unit)
promethium (30444 isk/unit)
scandium (1500 isk/unit)
silicates (1100 isk/unit)
tech (9700 isk/unit)
thulium (15202 isk/unit)
titanium (3800 isk/unit)
tungsten (1330 isk/unit)
vanadium (300 isk/unit)

Siphons are dead on arrival. You may as well not bother releasing them at all in this state. Save the art assets for something else, something someone may actually use.

Honorine Luv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2013-11-03 11:08:49 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
So with the added requirements on sisi, it takes over a day for a siphon to break even on dysprosium (the most expensive moon mineral).

All it takes to kill one of these is to log on an alt and use a single pos gun.

So.....it takes 0 effort to log in an alt once a day. If it's not worth siphoning dyspro (46101 isk/unit), why would anyone bother siphoning:
cadmium (6000 isk/unit)
caesium (4900 isk/unit)
chromium (4000 isk/unit
cobalt (1500 isk/unit)
hafnium (9500 isk/unit)
hydrocarbs (150 isk/unit)
mercury (6200 isk/unit)
neodymium (33000 isk/unit)
platinum (3000 isk/unit)
promethium (30444 isk/unit)
scandium (1500 isk/unit)
silicates (1100 isk/unit)
tech (9700 isk/unit)
thulium (15202 isk/unit)
titanium (3800 isk/unit)
tungsten (1330 isk/unit)
vanadium (300 isk/unit)

Siphons are dead on arrival. You may as well not bother releasing them at all in this state. Save the art assets for something else, something someone may actually use.



Then maybe you shouldn't be trying to steal raw materials but rather reaction outputs. I'm not sure what you expected from these? It's not like you can get break even on a hulk in one day while mining ice highsec. And people still do it. While being at the keyboard as well!

The mining of raw materials just isn't that profitable these days. An r16 moon nets you like 70m for a full month and that's without factoring in the logistics involved (30k m3 in fuel, 70k m3 in materials).

If these were introduced with either larger siphoning amounts, more ehp or more storage, I don't see why anyone would bother to mine anything below an r64 (at least until prices rise enough).

Setting the price of these at a point where it isn't easy to just spam them in a whole region and see which ones make a profit makes them that more interesting to me. Some people run reaction farms in a single system with dozens of towers and only check them once a week. With the right setup this could net you quite some isk in that time. Yes, this requires some scouting and some more time. If that's too much effort, I'm not sure this unit is ever going to be any use to you.

I like what I see thus far. It might even persuade me to roll and alt and anonymously pester some of the reactor tycoons I have in my alliance.


xttz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#43 - 2013-11-03 15:26:29 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
So with the added requirements on sisi, it takes over a day for a siphon to break even on dysprosium (the most expensive moon mineral).



Citation Needed.

The material list on sisi puts these things at around 12 million ISK each, using current Jita prices. That means you can break even on the following in under a day with a single siphon:

Hafnium (~1 day)
Tech (1 day)
Thulium (18 hours)
Prome / Neo (9-10 hours)
Dyspro ( 5-6 hours)

PotatoOverdose wrote:
why would anyone bother siphoning


Because siphoning is by far the best griefing mechanic CCP have come up with since the remote doomsday, and Eve players love griefing.

Siphons are going to be intensely broken on arrival, but not for anything related to cost. They're a poorly implemented idea that does nothing to encourage player interaction. It's an attempt to counter perceived "low-effort income" by allowing even lower effort aggression.
At the end of the day it doesn't matter what these things cost - as long as they work they way they do now, players will drop them to simply deny enemy income with no intention to collect or profit on them.
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#44 - 2013-11-04 06:53:30 UTC
Honorine Luv wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
So with the added requirements on sisi, it takes over a day for a siphon to break even on dysprosium (the most expensive moon mineral).

All it takes to kill one of these is to log on an alt and use a single pos gun.

So.....it takes 0 effort to log in an alt once a day. If it's not worth siphoning dyspro (46101 isk/unit), why would anyone bother siphoning:
cadmium (6000 isk/unit)
caesium (4900 isk/unit)
chromium (4000 isk/unit
cobalt (1500 isk/unit)
hafnium (9500 isk/unit)
hydrocarbs (150 isk/unit)
mercury (6200 isk/unit)
neodymium (33000 isk/unit)
platinum (3000 isk/unit)
promethium (30444 isk/unit)
scandium (1500 isk/unit)
silicates (1100 isk/unit)
tech (9700 isk/unit)
thulium (15202 isk/unit)
titanium (3800 isk/unit)
tungsten (1330 isk/unit)
vanadium (300 isk/unit)

Siphons are dead on arrival. You may as well not bother releasing them at all in this state. Save the art assets for something else, something someone may actually use.



Then maybe you shouldn't be trying to steal raw materials but rather reaction outputs. I'm not sure what you expected from these? It's not like you can get break even on a hulk in one day while mining ice highsec. And people still do it. While being at the keyboard as well!

The mining of raw materials just isn't that profitable these days. An r16 moon nets you like 70m for a full month and that's without factoring in the logistics involved (30k m3 in fuel, 70k m3 in materials).

If these were introduced with either larger siphoning amounts, more ehp or more storage, I don't see why anyone would bother to mine anything below an r64 (at least until prices rise enough).

Setting the price of these at a point where it isn't easy to just spam them in a whole region and see which ones make a profit makes them that more interesting to me. Some people run reaction farms in a single system with dozens of towers and only check them once a week. With the right setup this could net you quite some isk in that time. Yes, this requires some scouting and some more time. If that's too much effort, I'm not sure this unit is ever going to be any use to you.

I like what I see thus far. It might even persuade me to roll and alt and anonymously pester some of the reactor tycoons I have in my alliance.




But u can not steal reaction ccc....

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.

xttz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#45 - 2013-11-04 13:20:02 UTC
Zloco Crendraven wrote:

But u can not steal reaction ccc....


Dev Blog wrote:

The Small Mobile Siphon Unit in Rubicon can steal raw material (from Moon Harvester Arrays) and processed material (from Simple Reactor Arrays). It will prioritize raw material over processed material if both are available. It cannot steal alchemy output.


...
Dunk Dinkle
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#46 - 2013-11-12 16:13:40 UTC
I played with them a little today.

My question is regarding scanning. I was not able to probe down the siphon after I deployed it. I was using a Buzzard with Sisters launcher/probes, but not perfect probing skills.

Was it:

  1. Siphons are not scanable/probeable?
  2. My skills at scanning are poor?
  3. I cannot scan my own deployable?
  4. (insert correct answer here)


Thanks!
CCP Paradox
#47 - 2013-11-12 16:57:37 UTC
Dunk Dinkle wrote:
I played with them a little today.

My question is regarding scanning. I was not able to probe down the siphon after I deployed it. I was using a Buzzard with Sisters launcher/probes, but not perfect probing skills.

Was it:

  1. Siphons are not scanable/probeable?
  2. My skills at scanning are poor?
  3. I cannot scan my own deployable?
  4. (insert correct answer here)


Thanks!


They haven't had the sensor strength attributes on the deployable yet, I don't know if they are on Singularity or not yet, but they should be the next time we have an update. (SS for all 4 bands is set at 75)

CCP Paradox | EVE QA | Team Phenomenon

Space Magician

Dunk Dinkle
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#48 - 2013-11-13 17:51:40 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:


They haven't had the sensor strength attributes on the deployable yet, I don't know if they are on Singularity or not yet, but they should be the next time we have an update. (SS for all 4 bands is set at 75)


I tested again today, and I could scan down the siphon. The update worked. Thanks!
Mirima Thurander
#49 - 2013-11-13 18:15:33 UTC
Can you use it to steal from drug POS's?

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.

Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
#50 - 2013-11-14 05:58:52 UTC
Looking at the stats there really doesn't seem to be much reason to use these things outside of griefing. That's kind of sad in my opinion.
5n4keyes
Sacred Templars
#51 - 2013-11-14 13:55:30 UTC
Zvaarian the Red wrote:
Looking at the stats there really doesn't seem to be much reason to use these things outside of griefing. That's kind of sad in my opinion.


Guessing that's where medium and large will come into it
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#52 - 2013-11-14 17:20:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Soldarius
CCP Paradox wrote:
After some discussion, we have added the requirement of Anchoring at level 2, to be able to deploy them.


:applause:

Good call. I would have made smalls require Anchoring 1. But 2 will work just fine.

If CCP continues along the what seems to me obvious path of small, medium, and large syphons, doesn't it make more sense for smalls to syphon only raw goo, while mediums steal raw+simple reactants, and larges get raw, simple, and complex?

Syphons are still too small. 10x the volume or you will have covert frigates blanketing entire constellations in a single night. A few dedicated pilots could cover an entire region in one go.

I do have one question though: Where will these blueprints be available? Ghost sites? NPC sell orders?

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Noriko Mai
#53 - 2013-11-16 16:19:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Noriko Mai
Is it possible to put stuff in the siphon unit? This way it would be possible to fill it up with garbage and stop it stealing.

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein

Ebisu Anaheil
The Witches' Brew
#54 - 2013-11-18 14:01:43 UTC
Noriko Mai wrote:
Is it possible to put stuff in the siphon unit? This way it would be possible to fill it up with garbage and stop it stealing.

Dev Blogs; No Honor Among Thieves - Siphon Units in Rubicon
"It has a capacity of 1200 m3. If it is full, it stops stealing. Anybody can access the storage and take from it. It is not possible to put items into the storage. When you select a siphon unit, a bar shows you how full the unit is."

By the way, Can the waste factor for the Siphon Unit set to 100%?
I'm glad if I can set it !!
Upset Cesaille
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2013-11-25 02:07:57 UTC
Good to see CCP caved in to their favorite 0.0 player base crying again and made these useless. I bought 20 a few days ago to play around with in an abandoned lowsec constellation with a bunch of r16s and r32s.

2 days later 14 of them are dead, some died so quickly I could not make it 2 jumps to stop an SB soloing one. This is a system with less than 30 jumps/hr on a busy day and a bunch of alt corps with 2-3 members. All they need to do is log in and you are out of 18m/32m. Random people can also see them on dscan and drop by and steal everything.

You literally need to babysit them and empty them hour by hour if you want them to serve their purpose, which even then they still do awfully. I'm not really sure what the point of these is to be honest. They can't be bookmarked and don't open until you come within 500m (even though the activation range is listed as longer), which means POS guns have a ton of time to lock you as you uncloak and try to empty the cargo and then align (and the 50km range means you will be in range of guns). 4 siphons dropped near a POS with 2 simple reactors will steal the less valuable reaction every time; complex reactors are immune. I laugh at you if you think you can really "grief" r64s in 0.0, which are checked much more often than r16s in lowsec. I sure hope the "mobile structure future" CCP promises is better than this, but I think when they say "better living" they mean "mobile hisec POCOs for our largest subscriber base alliance".
Momoro
#56 - 2013-11-25 18:47:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Momoro
Upset Cesaille wrote:
Good to see CCP caved in to their favorite 0.0 player base crying again and made these useless. I bought 20 a few days ago to play around with in an abandoned lowsec constellation with a bunch of r16s and r32s.

2 days later 14 of them are dead, some died so quickly I could not make it 2 jumps to stop an SB soloing one. This is a system with less than 30 jumps/hr on a busy day and a bunch of alt corps with 2-3 members. All they need to do is log in and you are out of 18m/32m. Random people can also see them on dscan and drop by and steal everything.

You literally need to babysit them and empty them hour by hour if you want them to serve their purpose, which even then they still do awfully. I'm not really sure what the point of these is to be honest. They can't be bookmarked and don't open until you come within 500m (even though the activation range is listed as longer), which means POS guns have a ton of time to lock you as you uncloak and try to empty the cargo and then align (and the 50km range means you will be in range of guns). 4 siphons dropped near a POS with 2 simple reactors will steal the less valuable reaction every time; complex reactors are immune. I laugh at you if you think you can really "grief" r64s in 0.0, which are checked much more often than r16s in lowsec. I sure hope the "mobile structure future" CCP promises is better than this, but I think when they say "better living" they mean "mobile hisec POCOs for our largest subscriber base alliance".


You do not quite understand the purpose of these units. It is meant to make the moon tenant work a bit harder rather than passively mine moons unattended for 28 days. R64s in 0.0 where the tenant is resident are probably not the target of these. Think harder.

It's not meant to make you rich. You will have to work hard for that to happen, which is the whole point!

You fail at aligning and bookmarking. Maybe E-UNI has some courses on that.
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