EVE General Discussion

So the cry is, "Get out of hisec and live, but make sure you keep someone back there. It's stupid not to."

In my experience, it does. You might have different experiences, though. And no, I don't consider EVE's skillpoint loss as permadeath.

Pretty much. The problem is that it creates an "arena-like" system, where everyone grinds ISK in the safety of hisec, then roams around for "goodfights" in other areas of space, but an arena only works if people are actually compelled to fight. In Eve, where PvP is open-ended, it just ends up with people wandering around with no compelling reason to ever take a fight they're not 100% sure to win. If you "**** where you eat", so to speak, it incentivizes cooperation and competition, which makes for much more engaging and compelling gameplay.

Once you've gone through some imagined goals you've set for yourself, usually ship-acquisition influenced by the "collect purplz" attitude of most other MMOs, you find that what makes Eve fun and keeps people playing is the interactions with other players. Hisec as it currently stands massively disincentivzes interaction throughout the entire game.

I'll just repeat again that this has zero, nilch, zip, nada, etc to do with new players. We all sympathize with the learning curve of Eve, and the difficult transition to an Eve mindset from people's past experience with MMOs. Personally I think more resources should be put towards the new player experience than anything else, including sovereignty mechanics, nullsec/lowsec gameplay, and security sector gameplay balancing. Identifying themselves with "new players' is a trick that themepark players have long used to attempt to garner sympathy for their misguided views, while they have nothing more in common than anyone else.

Edit: I'll add that most of us would like to see gameplay in hisec that is appropriate for more casual players, but jives with Eve's overall themes, instead of mindless (and comparatively terrible) themepark grinding. I'd love it if people who only have an hour to play a couple times a week could get true "eve-flavoured" action in hisec, and I think the entire game would benefit as a whole.

As a resident new guy, I guess I approach EVE differently than some do - I refused to sign up until I had been thoroughly indoctrinated into the game by reading everything I could possibly get my hands on about it. If this is a harsh world, I don't want to be caught unaware of anything that will get me killed. Not that I mind being killed, necessarily, but it's an annoyance that I can do without at the moment. Someday I will move on to killing and being killed, I'm sure. Right now I'm working on money, because with money, I can do all that stuff. All I need to go to lo-sec is a nice frigate, but I'd rather not lose my pod, or I would have gone already.

Note, of course, when I say 'lose my pod' I mean the VALUE of my pod, which means paying a ransom for it as well as actually losing it. The pod isn't the thing, it's the paying to replace the implants and clones that will set me back.

Regarding newbies and nullsec. If you guys in the null are so worried about it, then why not do your own outreach programs toward the newbies? Show them the ropes, teach them, point them to right direction and so on. Sure, CCP could have better new player experience, but don't complain if newbies get taught one way by highsec people when you just mull in the null like some bunch of goth kids.

High sec players have alt accounts as well and if we are going to assume that low/null sec players have 'parked' alts in high sec then it is equally valid to assume that high sec players have nullsec alts that are 'parked' (i for one have both my exploration alts in nullsec). Further there are a lot of players in highsec that have 'parked' highsec alts that also dont get counted in these census because they are "parked".




I will use the generic term nullsec to refer to anyone from w-space, low and null because i find the term non-highsec cumbersome. You are more than willing to assume that not all highsec players are highsec and yet erroneously assume that all inhabitants of nullsec are true nullsec players.

I have two exploration alts one of which never leaves nullsec and the hauler alt only leaves when my hauling vessel is full and he needs to dump exploration loot to highsec then goes back to nullsec for another load. I am not alone in playing as a highsec player with a nullsec alt, there are pilots of every branch of the game be they weekend pirates, explorers, miners or any of the other professions in this game that although they go to nullsec to play are in fact alts of players that would label themselves as highsec players.

So when you look at nullsec numbers and make the erroneous assumption that all of them can be counted as nullsec players it is just that erroneous.

Here are some pointers for you: 1) dont read data and reach erroneous assumptions about that data. 2) don't presume that others have made the same error you have; 3) don't expose your failure so blatantly because it proves how feeble and although researched, the data found is interpreted so badly that your conclusion drawn from that data are unjustified.

I don't think anyone is going to tell you you're wrong exactly, but this is a pretty common belief that new players have that often gets proved very wrong through later experience.

Progress as you like, perhaps it's a lesson we all need to learn on our own, but I"m confident that the vast majority of vets will agree that actual player experience trumps any in-game advantage like sp or isk, plus it's far more fun and engaging.

If you're not a dive head first kind of person, then that's fine, but it really is the best way to play eve for the vast majority of people who end up sticking around; and the sooner you dive, the better.

How hilarious to see a guy post rules that he himself keeps breaking?

BTW, you're still missing the point, in spectacular fashion.

Not all of Test and Goons do that. I went to TEST and i'm not a part of any external community, Most people I flew with in TEST were "from" EVE.

You're not getting it. Ferrari is a niche market but if the number of rich people on the planet were to increase from 1 million to 5 million and Ferrari sales increased from 1000 cars per year to 2000 cars per year they have gained actual buyer count but lost market share and market share is a much more robust measure of a corporations strategy than simple looking at whether they have more customers this year than last year.

Now do you get it?