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[Proposal] AoE damage from exploding ships.
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Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#21 - 2011-11-03 11:18:37 UTC
I like the idea of AoE blast damage from ships and structures but it would need to be across all of EvE and I can see a real possibility of it feeding the lag monster. The idea that only capital ships have the required mass to go critical and produce AoE damage is a good one and worth looking into.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#22 - 2011-11-03 18:58:22 UTC
+1

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
el alasar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2011-11-17 23:55:09 UTC
if AoE, then it should be
- possible in all kinds of space
- deal same damage to all entities in the radius (no difference to large /small ships)

and why should a self-destruct not cause damage? you are still able to "overload" your ship to explode (factor in a mix of remaining cap and hull?) - this should cause more damage than the breaking of the last intact steel beam?!

in the end balancing is needed how much AoE could be done in what circumstances.
i could imagine smaller ships doing less AoE damage at a smaller radius.
amount should vary and be no more than 2 smartbombs going off (small ship=small smart bomb, ...). so in regards to ganking or blobs have a limited impact.

check the moderated 10000 papercuts evelopedia page! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts comment, bump(!) and like what you like
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2011-11-18 14:19:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Vertisce Soritenshi
I have no problems personally with the AoE damage working in all space. A problem I WOULD have with it is people exploiting it for ganking and piracy in high sec on stations.

My original intent with this part of the idea was to allow explosions in high sec to cause damage to other ships. However I wanted to have an idea where gates and stations had some sort of explosion dampening field that would prevent the AoE damage on ships within a range of 250km of a gate or station but only in Highsec. What I would hate to see is people blowing up their own ships in large numbers doing massive damage to other smaller ships in large numbers just for the hell of it. I thought my solution would work rather well and even had a lore reason behind it but people shot it down to no end so I dropped it.

Also to answer your question on the self destruct issue. The idea was that a self destruct is a controlled destruction of the ship in which your ships power core is purged before the ship is destroyed. When you blow up from taking too much damage you don't have the opportunity to do this so the power core explodes causing the damage to other ships.

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E man Industries
SeaChell Productions
#25 - 2011-11-18 21:30:53 UTC  |  Edited by: E man Industries
yes, as long as it takes into acount signature size.
Don't want a fleet fight and every frigate is dead within the first couple tackles.
Frigates should take very little damage.
I really would like to see this.


As for poeple worries about ganking....a ship explosion will not do more damage than 8 large smart bombs.
If I want to suicide aoe gank you....I will and my ship explosion will not be what does it. A ship explosion would not one shot any ship.

Just pointing out all the worries of abuse are sort of silly.

Quote:

Ships should do an AOE damage effect similar to smartbombs.
This idea has been mentioned before but I believe it needs to concept to be iterated on a bit more.

Explosions should be dependent upon ship size. The bigger the ship the more damage the explosion would cause over a larger area. I would also like to see the explosion have an explosion radius value similar to missiles.(this is not the AOE but changes the dmg they do to target of a certain size. Damage type would also be by race

The amount of damage would be similar to 3-4 smart bombs of that ship sizes going off.

Battle ship explosion
Area of effect=30km
Damage =1500
Explosion radius of 300m

Cruiser Explosion
Area of Effect =15km
Damage=500
Explosion radius of 125m

Frigate explosion
Area of Effect 7.5km
Damage =250
Explosion Radius of 50m

So now these do less damage than a geddon with 8 smartbombs fitted so any potential ganker would be better of smart bombing.

With the explosion radiuses I doubt any ship would be one shot by these value’s as even at full damage most frigate could survive 1500 damage. But due to their small size they will take a very small portion of that.

Also no explosions on self destruct.
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2011-11-19 13:15:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Smiling Menace
It's all very well saying you want AoE in all space but what about aggro and CONCORD?

How long do you think before there's a threadnaught because someone ganked a noob and his AoE at a station undock knocked him to -10 one day into the game? No more EVE for him with that toon.

I am all for AoE but only on supers. This will limit the mayhem that will ensue in hi sec.

So it would only affect Orca's, Freighters, Jump Freighters, Rorqual's, Carriers, Dread, Super Carriers and Titans.

You will still see big bangs in hi sec, just not from every ship that gets popped.

Good thing for the Orca's, Freighters and Jump Freighters, as they have zero combat capability, the aggro from AoE should be given to the killers instead of the pilot if they catch some 'innocent' bystanders with AoE.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2011-11-19 13:25:23 UTC
AoE only on supers? Absolutely not. That would make no sense at all. We have already specified that we can limit AoE on stations and gates to address your concern specifically.

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Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2011-11-19 13:29:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Smiling Menace
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
AoE only on supers? Absolutely not. That would make no sense at all. We have already specified that we can limit AoE on stations and gates to address your concern specifically.


Yes you can 'limit' it, but you cannot totally remove it.

And where is my concern addressed in this thread? Your original idea didn't make any sense at all and I doubt anyone would support it.

If there's any chance of innocent gankee's getting a sec hit for being popped then I wouldn't support AoE at all. After all, that's a double hit for them....losing a ship AND a sec hit.

in case you missed what I originally wrote....


Smiling Menace wrote:
As I posted in the other thread, have AoE on ship death for capitals only as the sub caps don't have the mass to go critical.

So in theory, only Orca's and Freighters would have AoE in hi sec and I think most sensible people will see it getting ready to die and vacate the area if they don't want to go with it.

As these ships are effectively defenseless, any splash damage that results in CONCORD intervention will be given to the party(ies) involved in the kill. This might actually be a good thing as it will make suicide gankers think twice about popping a capital near a station or a gate (or maybe not if it's for the lolz) and even people involved in a wardec might think twice too. A further level of protection for capitals in hi sec.

For too long the death of a capital ship has been rather weak. It's a capital ship for crying out loud. When one of them goes boom it should be absolutely freakin awesome, not a wimper.

I can see a good use for super carriers after the nerf...cyno into the middle of a fleet and your own side shoots it before the bad guys get out the way....true suicide bombers in EVE TwistedTwistedTwisted
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2011-11-19 16:58:47 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
I have no problems personally with the AoE damage working in all space. A problem I WOULD have with it is people exploiting it for ganking and piracy in high sec on stations.

My original intent with this part of the idea was to allow explosions in high sec to cause damage to other ships. However I wanted to have an idea where gates and stations had some sort of explosion dampening field that would prevent the AoE damage on ships within a range of 250km of a gate or station but only in Highsec. What I would hate to see is people blowing up their own ships in large numbers doing massive damage to other smaller ships in large numbers just for the hell of it. I thought my solution would work rather well and even had a lore reason behind it but people shot it down to no end so I dropped it.

Also to answer your question on the self destruct issue. The idea was that a self destruct is a controlled destruction of the ship in which your ships power core is purged before the ship is destroyed. When you blow up from taking too much damage you don't have the opportunity to do this so the power core explodes causing the damage to other ships.


I hate quoting myself...

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Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2011-11-19 17:53:11 UTC
Jack Carrigan wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:

So the idea is to have AoE damage from ships exploding in space from combat damage. It was brought up in the previous thread that self destructing your ship should not cause AoE damage. I agree with this and a good reasoning would be that a self destruct is a "controlled" explosion achieved by purging your power core. When it comes to exploding from combat damage taken an AoE explosion similar to a smart bomb would occur. The explosion itself wouldn't have to be too different from a smartbomb in itself in fact.



So exactly how, from a lore perspective, could you justify this not happening in highsec? if a ship explodes, it explodes. Doesn't matter if it's in Jita or EC-P8R. the explosion is the same, so it should do the same thing.


Thats actually a good and valid question. One which I knew would come up. Before someone had brought this up and suggested something along the lines of Concord placing some magical tech device that supresses ship explosions so they do not effect other pilots. I believe at that time I suggested this only be implemented near stations and gates so that GCC and damage from exploding ships could occur everywhere else in a high sec system but just not within a certain range of gates and stations. I think I was thoroughly shot down on that idea for some reason. I still feel it is reasonable however.


See bold/underlined text.

It is made of fail.


I'll quote Jack on this one....
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2011-11-19 19:17:55 UTC
Again...with the proper restrictions around gates and stations there is no reason why AoE damage from exploding ships can't work in Highsec. Limiting ship explosion damage to not work within 250km of a gate or station resolves this issue. If you want a reason to how that works with the lore you can say that gates and stations have technology that dampens explosions so they have no effect. As for limiting to capitals...this makes no sense. You are claiming that only capitals have the mass to do any damage? I don't agree...all ships have warp drives and power cores...these are what cause the explosion when they go critical.

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Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2011-11-19 22:52:53 UTC
Think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one dude.
Sphit Ker
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2011-11-20 03:00:03 UTC
No way. No thanks.

Will somebody think of the drones?

It knows what you think.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2011-11-20 07:53:44 UTC
Sphit Ker wrote:
No way. No thanks.

Will somebody think of the drones?


Drones don't matter...they are easily replaced. And besides...it has already been made very clear that with the way this would work...drones would take little to no damage.

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GavinCapacitor
CaeIum Incognitum
#35 - 2011-11-22 19:35:32 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
T This is already done by the fact that you cant use smartbombs.


Factually wrong. Stopped reading there.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2011-11-22 19:38:57 UTC
GavinCapacitor wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
T This is already done by the fact that you cant use smartbombs.


Factually wrong. Stopped reading there.


Your loss. Last time I checked you cannot use a smartbomb in highsec. Guess I will go try it when I get home to be sure.

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GavinCapacitor
CaeIum Incognitum
#37 - 2011-11-22 21:05:24 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
GavinCapacitor wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
T This is already done by the fact that you cant use smartbombs.


Factually wrong. Stopped reading there.


Your loss. Last time I checked you cannot use a smartbomb in highsec. Guess I will go try it when I get home to be sure.


Why wait? Simply look at evelopedia:
"hey have an area of effect in which every object, hostile or otherwise, will be hit. Because of that, using them in high security systems is not advised, as hitting almost anyone will result in concord intervention."
from:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Item_Database:Ship_Equipment:Smartbombs

Someone probably told you to not use them in high sec for this reason and eventually in the dusty cobwebs of your mind it turned into 'it is impossible use a smart bomb in high sec'.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2011-11-22 21:38:25 UTC
Well either way a solution has already been posted several times in regards to GCC's on exploding ships.

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Julia Connor
P R O M E T H E U S
From Anoikis
#39 - 2011-11-22 22:47:56 UTC
Haha, it sounds like a good idea but it's fail tbh. Blaster boats will be so ****** up if this happens.
GavinCapacitor
CaeIum Incognitum
#40 - 2011-11-23 08:07:47 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Well either way a solution has already been posted several times in regards to GCC's on exploding ships.


Aw comon. No quote? Just an "either way X". Not even saying you were wrong? You know you'd be all over this if you went home, tested it, and it turned out you couldn't use smart bombs in high sec.

Plus, the solution provided for smart bombs would be absolutely unworkable with your crap idea about exploding ships doing AOE damage.

Picture this: You are hauling your 10 years supply of plex in your interbus shuttle, just waiting for the autopilot to get to jita. You get to jita and decided to peruse all the great deals in local before docking up. Then, suddenly, you explode, suicide ganked. In a fit of rage and spaghetti you go to the station and undock in your battle orca, with its hull tank and full set of 15 light battle drones. You then explode again, concorded. Turns out your ships death AOE damage hit several other pilots, and your security status is below -5.
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