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CCP, please let us, the players help the Philipphines!

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RAW23
#141 - 2013-11-12 20:25:29 UTC
TruthState wrote:
RAW23 wrote:
TruthState wrote:
If anyone has actually seen the Philipphines up close they know no amount of money could help that country. Before this tragedy happened this country was already wrecked. This money will be a wasted endeavor just to make 1st world folks feel good about themselves thinking they will solve problems. Face facts, your money will be waisted. Your temporary feeling of moral superiority will only make you feel good. In terms of pragmatic practicality it does nothing.

Enjoy your 1st world problems, and not solving issues in the real world. You want to make a difference you actually do, there is no other solution. Mother nature is a nasty *****, your dollars mean **** to nature.

Thx,


Wow! You're so tough and worldly. Help the rest of us be cynical defeatists like you, please! I'm sure it's for the best.

On a side note, your arguments are ****.



You can throw your money at the problem as you wish, it wont solve a thing. People here in the West dont care about the Philippines, what they do care about is to make themselves feel good that they are making a difference with the money they send over. I'm looking at what good was done since the 2004 Tsunami relief or the Haiti earthquake. All that was done was temporary feelings of self gratification that good deeds were done. But its a frugal exercise to donate 10$ to give someone food or water for a day. Same thing with when you have aid organizations giving food to nations in Africa. You give people the tools to become independent, not reliant consistently on the outside world. You want food for your people, here are the tools we will give you to grow, not consecutive hand outs that solve nothing. You want problems to not persist during emergencies, then fund the neccessary government organizations to do the hardwork through the national tax process & not pass it over to NGO's that'll be eager to waste a good chunk of the money on administrative costs. Let it be a government venture not a NGO venture.


None of this really makes sense. You are mixing up a whole bunch of bitter talking points that don't really hang together as a coherent whole. Help but don't help. Horrible aid organisations. Westerners just wanting to feel good. Bullshit analyses about nothing good being done in Haiti at all. It's pretty much crap start to finish. Some of the points have independent weight but none of them individually, and certainly not the whole lot collectively, add up to anything like a reason not to give money to the Red Cross in order to help support the provision of immediate relief. Frankly, it's an intellectual mess and its genuinely pretty pitiful seeing someone deliberately trying to discourage people from helping a relief effort just to make themselves feel tough and smug.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
TruthState
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#142 - 2013-11-12 20:33:02 UTC
Rhivre wrote:
Some of us know people who are directly affected by the typhoon, and they certainly do not see money being sent to provide basic stuff as wasted, or useless. They also do not think the money raised that they sent directly after the earthquake is wasted, and neither is the money they themselves are taking over.

To compare food aid to a country or development aid, to aid after one of the strongest storms ever to make landfall is....a bizarre comparison. Problems "persisting" during this emergency include, but are not limited to "Holy crap, my house doesnt exist" "our water is full of sewage". Now, I am not sure what you suggest is best for preventing these problems, as even one of the richest cities in the world suffered with a lack of utilities after a wind several orders of magnitude smaller last year.

Bearing in mind that alleged 1st world countries need assistance after disasters....and almost 10 years down the road are still not functioning as before....


What I am saying is there is a disconnect somewhere. Either you fix a problem and make sure theres emergency measures you can take to save maximum lives or you become neglectful. A perfect system would solve all the problems with maximum efficiency in resource allocation. But we know waste is a persistent feature with any system. New Orleans is a perfect example of this. You go there and you see 9/10 years afterwards very little has changed and the desire to truely fix problems does not exist. Temporary solutions to temporary fixes.

Whats the solution to helping nation states in dire need? We have governments for a reason, with all the tax money that comes into nation states, measures should be in place to make sure its people have the means of being saved during disasters. And it shouldnt be the responsibility of individuals to solve the problem. Responsibility relies on nation states.

Look at Japan right now, they are still having problems with Fukushima because there is not a solution or full on will to solve the Fukushima problem. Leaking radioactive water into the Pacific etc...

So whats the problem in fixing these kinds of problems by nation states? And handouts like these in my mind do nothing, but enrich disfunctional systems. These are half measures in my eyes to just hand out money
Joshu Mumon
Doomheim
#143 - 2013-11-12 20:39:05 UTC
TruthState wrote:
You want problems to not persist during emergencies, then fund the neccessary government organizations to do the hardwork through the national tax process & not pass it over to NGO's that'll be eager to waste a good chunk of the money on administrative costs. Let it be a government venture not a NGO venture.


Individuals are suffering. Should they continue to do so because they "should" make their government do something about about it ahead of time? What happens if a government is dysfunctional? What if the measures are not enough?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#144 - 2013-11-12 20:39:47 UTC
Please take your politics into a separate thread.

It's not like by sending money we are doing them worse than sending nothing because [insert here colorful reason].

I leave to the world governors the task to implement sweeping changes that could change a nation's destiny.

I am focused to one task: provide immediate relief to those who are dying for lack of food and water TODAY.




On a separate matter, more people are sending donations:

2013-11-12: 2 x PLEX | Donor name: Zappity

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Careby
#145 - 2013-11-12 20:43:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Careby
TruthState wrote:
...You want problems to not persist during emergencies, then fund the neccessary government organizations to do the hardwork through the national tax process & not pass it over to NGO's that'll be eager to waste a good chunk of the money on administrative costs. Let it be a government venture not a NGO venture.

Thanks for injecting a little comic relief into the conversation. I didn't realize you were joking in your first couple posts because of the serious nature of the topic. But adding the "government = low administrative costs" line, even I get it now.

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Please take your politics into a separate thread....

Yes, sorry to have contributed to pushing the thread further off topic.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#146 - 2013-11-12 20:46:06 UTC
It seems aid isn't the issue its the lack of small planes to transport it.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#147 - 2013-11-12 21:07:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
A newborn player has just sent 10M to the charity: probably all he had. He also opted to remain anonymous.

I am going to send him 100M off my personal wallet for the gesture!

/bows

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Zions Child
Higashikata Industries
#148 - 2013-11-12 21:15:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Zions Child
Careby wrote:
TruthState wrote:
...You want problems to not persist during emergencies, then fund the neccessary government organizations to do the hardwork through the national tax process & not pass it over to NGO's that'll be eager to waste a good chunk of the money on administrative costs. Let it be a government venture not a NGO venture.

Thanks for injecting a little comic relief into the conversation. I didn't realize you were joking in your first couple posts because of the serious nature of the topic. But adding the "government = low administrative costs" line, even I get it now.



To be fair, government organizations have repeatedly proven themselves (when appropriately funded and not tied by red tape a la FEMA during Katrina) to have an extremely low amount of administrative overhead in relief and charity operations. The Red Cross and many other private non-profits tend to have high operating costs (part of this is economies of scale, and another part of it is that government organizations tend to have access to a much larger amount of resources). If you look at Hurricane Sandy, the various NGOs and government organizations did quite a bit more than the Red Cross and other private organizations, at a significantly lower cost.

It's just more pleasant to say that private charities are more effective (despite pretty much all evidence to the contrary).

Anyways, despite my personal dislike of non-profit charities, I've donated RL money to the relief fund because there's not a hell of a lot else I can do (I'd donate blood... but I can't...).

If I have extra iskies or plex or something I'll send a few your way Varokh!

Donation Stuffs.
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#149 - 2013-11-12 22:28:27 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
A newborn player has just sent 10M to the charity: probably all he had. He also opted to remain anonymous.

I am going to send him 100M off my personal wallet for the gesture!

/bows


Nice.

(totally not random bumping)

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Pampers Toralen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#150 - 2013-11-13 00:45:02 UTC
@BennyOj @CCP_Manifest @CCP_Guard We're currently discussing something internally with regards to this but can't really talk publicly yet :)
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#151 - 2013-11-13 02:47:28 UTC
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#152 - 2013-11-13 03:30:53 UTC
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Why not actually send them money, rather than use in game isk to cover your donations?
Giving money out of your pocket means something, giving meaningless money from within a game is just weak.


Hey maybe you should take VV's offer and match his donation then?

You do realize that nobody is donating "meaningless money from within a game" but transferring PLEX to CCP that will be converted into a donation to a charity of CCP's choosing, correct?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#153 - 2013-11-13 06:42:45 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
This is the link to the CCP twitter response.


Hoping for a response soon then :)

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Magnu Stormhawk
#154 - 2013-11-13 09:28:03 UTC
Make happen.

Please.
Krashion
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#155 - 2013-11-13 11:47:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Krashion
still waiting on CCP
on a side note, I may just donate the bo amount on my auction myself and cancel my char auction, had a few ******* emails which make me despair with the eve community.

Sale cancelled and 10b donation sent
Solaris Ecladia
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#156 - 2013-11-13 12:10:47 UTC
There's a few consistent themes in this thread.
First let me say Im all for CCP re-instating a plex for relief fund.
Second, by doing this, CCP and you promote EVE via charity and can help bring people into the game.
Third, to the people saying "send so and so a check. Or donate blood or whatever." For some of us, that isnt an option. Im pretty ******* poor IRL, but I have a decent amount of ISK in game I could buy plexes and donate with to help out. I cant donate blood due to a medical condition that makes my blood not replenish quick enough.
Also why are you people so against a charity?
Antihrist Pripravnik
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#157 - 2013-11-13 12:12:42 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


Imagine this: you play the ONE game where you can save REAL lives just by playing!


Ender's game? I KNEW something's fishy about EVE Big smile

Anyway, +1 for this PLEX drive.
Samroski
Middle-Earth
#158 - 2013-11-13 12:27:04 UTC
Krashion wrote:
still waiting on CCP
on a side note, I may just donate the bo amount on my auction myself and cancel my char auction, had a few ******* emails which make me despair with the eve community

Opposition to previous charity drives nearly made me loose faith in the Eve community. The opposition was especially intense for the Pakistan drive where the prevalent sentiment appeared to be, "they deserve what they got, so let them die."

The drives did help restore my faith in CCP. Possibly those were good days for CCP. Dust was not even on the horizon, and tax benefits probably made more sense than they do currently.

Having said all that, and despite the fiasco of 2011, I still believe that CCP retain their core values. They repeatedly make mistakes, but are similarly consistent in making amends. I believe that they will (eventually) do the right thing (whatever that may be).

Any colour you like.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#159 - 2013-11-13 13:16:11 UTC
Krashion wrote:
still waiting on CCP
on a side note, I may just donate the bo amount on my auction myself and cancel my char auction, had a few ******* emails which make me despair with the eve community.

Sale cancelled and 10b donation sent



Thank you very much!

10B donation confirmed in game.

P.S. please don't send ISK to me but to VAERT. I'd rather keep accounting simple, because VAERT MUST be completely transparent for any CCP inspection.

..................


Solaris Ecladia wrote:

Second, by doing this, CCP and you promote EVE via charity and can help bring people into the game.


That's true.

Imagine monetizing the positive PR CCP would get just with some articles on some important MMO websites: "EvE Online, the only MMO so real that players may help Philippines!"

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RAW23
#160 - 2013-11-13 13:49:26 UTC
Samroski wrote:

Opposition to previous charity drives nearly made me loose faith in the Eve community. The opposition was especially intense for the Pakistan drive where the prevalent sentiment appeared to be, "they deserve what they got, so let them die."



I don't remember the Pakistan one, only Haiti and Japan. Must have missed it somehow.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.