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Miner Griefing: A few thoughts
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Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
#21 - 2013-11-12 12:26:32 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Sevendeadly Sins wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
... You could also just wardec all the indy corps in the area you plan on operating in and come beat up their barges with your barges and steal their minerals from their smoking hulls... Twisted


But You can't wardec NPC corpses... Straight

Only someone that has something against the dead would do that.


What does that say about someone with a corpse collection?

Because... I know a guy that does that. He's... a friend.


who doesn't have a corpse collection?
Haedonism Bot
People for the Ethical Treatment of Rogue Drones
#22 - 2013-11-12 12:29:40 UTC
Be nice, everybody, the OP is on the cusp of Enlightenment. Already he has come to the realization that it is more fun to "grief" miners than it is to mine. There is a logical progression to this train of thought. He deserves our love and support through this transition period.

www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com

Vote Sabriz Adoudel and Tora Bushido for CSMX. Keep the Evil in EVE!
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
#23 - 2013-11-12 12:33:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Himnos Altar
Haedonism Bot wrote:
Be nice, everybody, the OP is on the cusp of Enlightenment. Already he has come to the realization that it is more fun to "grief" miners than it is to mine. There is a logical progression to this train of thought. He deserves our love and support through this transition period.


If by Enlightenment you mean the New Order?

Hell yeah I support James 315.

I may occasionally dabble into mining, but it's more of a hobby that I occasionally ply, and not a way of life.

I often slip his name into Local or some random channel merely to revel in the infamy they ascribe to him. It's quite hilarious.
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#24 - 2013-11-12 13:05:19 UTC
It is more fun to watch paint dry on the wall you just erected than it is to mine. But the real question is, are you Fortunado or Montressor? On some wild nights you can manage to be both at the same time.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
WASPY69
Xerum.
#25 - 2013-11-12 13:24:27 UTC
A very long time ago, in a system far far away, being a wee little newbie, I was mining in a carebear corp. We would get mining fleets of 35 or more people from our corp, and we would clear belts in under an hour, so much so that in one night of "mining ops" we had to travel to the adjacent system over to continue.
Point being? It takes a LOT of effort to coordinate such things, and considering there are 1000 or so highsec systems in eve, clearing all of them of asteroid belts would be impossible for one corp to do, Downtime to Downtime.
Clearing one system? more than feasible. More than one system? highly unlikely.

Also. Please stop using the word "griefing". There is no such thing as griefing in EVE. It's all emergent gameplay providing everyone with content. Griefing would refer to someone doing things to you in ways unintended by CCP for the sole purpose of harassment. This would be considered an exploit. And it is not the case when your barge is turned into spacedust from a Catalyst. It's all allowed within the sandbox.

This signature intentionally left blank
Jythier Smith
BGG Wolves
#26 - 2013-11-12 14:44:15 UTC
Ultimate miner revenge - get gankers mining instead of ganking. Then, gank gankers' mining ships.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#27 - 2013-11-12 14:46:26 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
I suppose if the lot of you were extremely drunk and on comms at the same time it could be bearable.
You could also just wardec all the indy corps in the area you plan on operating in and come beat up their barges with your barges and steal their minerals from their smoking hulls... would probably be a great deal more entertaining.

Edit: Added bonus of using mining ships to kill mining ships is removing the whole "unfair" whinge that inevitably arises.Twisted

sounds lke you want to awox

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#28 - 2013-11-12 14:47:50 UTC
Himnos Altar wrote:
This is just a random thought that occured to me that I thought I'd pass along. It would be fun sometime to form a corporation whose sole purpose is to strip mine several constellations/region(s) immediately after Downtime so that nobody else could get anything from there that day.

Get 30 or so Skiffs/Procurers that are in no way cost-effective to gank, hoover the minerals, and move on. Orcas kept in safe spots way, way inside the undock radius fit for tank, mining support (Range, Speed Mining links, the shield resist link). (underneath/on top of the stations?)

Basically the strategy of the aliens from Independence Day.

Mainly thought of this strategy after watching myself and a few alts destroy a belt in an hour or so. Began to wonder what a much larger, concerted effort could do.

Practical? Nah.

But it would be fun to see a bunch of people whining about not having any minerals to mine.

Granted, this is probably already employed near Jita.

Just a random thought that farted out that I thought I'd share.


No, it's not a thought about ganking miners to grief them but actually mining to grief miners in later TZs

MvM

Miners v Miners

:P


Two things:

1) Put the Orca in a POS. Anything on a station can be ganked with enough Tornadoes.

2) Skiffs and Procurers are fine - until you get WarDec'd. Better to stay in NPC corps and gather everyone into a private channel.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-11-12 15:03:10 UTC
Himnos Altar wrote:
It would be fun sometime to form a corporation whose sole purpose is to strip mine several constellations/region(s) immediately after Downtime so that nobody else could get anything from there that day.


I think you are overestimating the ability of 30 skiff.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Taal Khurin
Acorn Harvesting
#30 - 2013-11-12 15:22:30 UTC
I still do not get all the fascination with greifing miners etc. There seems to be so many threads devoted to it, it almost seems like a miner touched them in a naughty place when they were young or something.

It's also strangely really only a vaguely recent thing, up until a couple of years ago you rarely heard about suicide ganking barges.
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#31 - 2013-11-12 15:22:45 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
I suppose if the lot of you were extremely drunk and on comms at the same time it could be bearable.
You could also just wardec all the indy corps in the area you plan on operating in and come beat up their barges with your barges and steal their minerals from their smoking hulls... would probably be a great deal more entertaining.

Edit: Added bonus of using mining ships to kill mining ships is removing the whole "unfair" whinge that inevitably arises.Twisted

sounds lke you want to awox

I would, but I have an overdeveloped conscience... I have no stomach for betraying trust, as my own trust bucket is perpetually and woefully empty. I try tho, that is to trust, by occasionally extending the hand of friendship while firmly gripping the knife in the hand behind my back... just in case.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Tychus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2013-11-12 15:25:02 UTC
If you really want to make people cry, hump ice. Ice is much less common than rocks and spawns in much smaller quantities. Controlling how much people pay to fuel their POS systems affects a lot of stuff, including bpc and tech 2 production. If you're serious send me an eve mail, I'm interested and could bring 3 macks/orca to the party....
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#33 - 2013-11-12 15:39:37 UTC
I can usually rob a system of at least half of it's belts while waiting for an ice belt to respawn. Count me in if this ever get set up, just to annoy the new order guys.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Karrl Tian
Doomheim
#34 - 2013-11-12 15:41:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Karrl Tian
Taal Khurin wrote:
I still do not get all the fascination with greifing miners etc. There seems to be so many threads devoted to it, it almost seems like a miner touched them in a naughty place when they were young or something.

It's also strangely really only a vaguely recent thing, up until a couple of years ago you rarely heard about suicide ganking barges.


I'm puzzled too, we've gone from Hulkageddon---a yearly contest to see who could gank the most barges---to bumping miners like kids tipping a fat-person on a scooter at Wal-Mart.

A couple of years ago, miners knew how to take care of themselves and those who didn't were told by the rest to HTFU and fit a goddamned tank when they died. Miners and industrialists loved it when ganks happened, as it meant seeing their competition go down in flames. Hell, the best way to do a suicide gank was to be an industrialist and build the gank-ships yourself and collect the insurance when you died.

Not sure when the current tear-cascade started, tbh. If you want an indication to how the culture has changed, consider how Crimewatch was implemented to replace the old theft mechanics that were implemented at the request of the community specifically so miners could defend their ore themselves.

If I had to guess why it is the way it is, it may have had something to do with the introduction of the large-gun BCs and the destroyer buff making miner-ganking way easier for a 6-month period to which CCP responded by over-buffing barges. As a business, they'd tote the Sandbox/Cruel universe line until they're blue in the face, but if something made a bunch of high-sec alts unsub (Alts and PLEX being their bread-and-butter at this point) then steps would be taken to change that.

This, of course, royally pissed off the people who made a living off "greefing the minorz" but they've always adapted and found new ways (unlike their victims) hence all the threads brainstorming and pooling ideas.
Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-11-12 15:59:57 UTC
If you ever decide to go this route on whatever level, even if it is just the simple 1 system or even one belt aproach, Eve-mail me.
Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
#36 - 2013-11-12 16:13:38 UTC
Mining to grief miners... why do i see this coming full circle?


Also it's pretty interesting how many of you have exhumers and mining trained...

Tell me again about how every playstyle you dont engage in "doesn't require any effort" and everyone who does it needs to die in a fire. Be sure to mention about how you tried it once but it was too easy/boring/ethnic-homophobic slur. 
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
#37 - 2013-11-12 22:23:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Himnos Altar
dexington wrote:
Himnos Altar wrote:
It would be fun sometime to form a corporation whose sole purpose is to strip mine several constellations/region(s) immediately after Downtime so that nobody else could get anything from there that day.


I think you are overestimating the ability of 30 skiff.



Let's see....

1 Procurer with T2 laser/, T2 crystal and boost mines at around 4k per cycle, with max Orca boosts roughly 2 minutes.

so 2k m3 per minute *30=60k m3 per hour per Procurer with 2 MLUs in the lows, yield drops around 25%/cycle if it's DC2, other tanky thing in the lows.

Haven't flown Skiffs in a while so I'm not sure the bonus they've got.

Let's say 30 Procurers, so we have again, 60k m3 per minute, or 1800k m3 per hour assuming they never stop.

Let's say that they only get 50k per minute on average, factoring in inattentiveness, warp, dock, crystal change, lock timesetc into things.

1500k m3 per hour

1,500,000 m3 per hour for a 30 max skill/boost Procurer fleet. I'd say that would put a serious dent into any belt/system. I'd put the value of each Procurer at roughly 20M or so if each had MLU, T2 Strips, T2 crystals, T2 fit. Maybe 25. At that point it's both shield tanking which is their role, and cheap tanking like miners flying retrievers.

This number would go up depending on how ore was collected (dumping into Orca, Orca docks; GSC/Kryos, etc).

Again, this is just theorycrafting.

But I don't think I overestimate the power of a 30 Skiff fleet. The big problem would be getting rid of all the Plag. This could be solved by stationing GSCs every 10KM or so and giving each Plag miner a certain radius (5KM or so) to clear out.


Quote:

2) Skiffs and Procurers are fine - until you get WarDec'd. Better to stay in NPC corps and gather everyone into a private channel.


Once you get war decced you'd switch to bait Skiffs/Procurers, fit for tank over yield.. Again, both have impressive tanks, though they won't hold up under sustained fire.

I dislike NPC corps as a general rule. I prefer to wade into the war deccable waters.
Toshiroma McDiesel
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2013-11-12 22:32:24 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
make asteroids destroyable


They already are, your just using the wrong tools Pirate

I"m not really the Evil One, I'm just his answering service.
Jessica Braun
Doomheim
#39 - 2013-11-12 23:01:07 UTC
Taal Khurin wrote:
I still do not get all the fascination with greifing miners etc. There seems to be so many threads devoted to it, it almost seems like a miner touched them in a naughty place when they were young or something.

It's also strangely really only a vaguely recent thing, up until a couple of years ago you rarely heard about suicide ganking barges.


It's not as prevalent as they would like us to believe. A handful of vocal kids with limited motor skills picked some choice systems to take out a handful of mostly ignorant and ill-equipped miners. Bonus for them is that they are led by someone with a lot of time on his hands to Photoshop chat logs and run a blog. They should get a tip-of-the-hat for their marketing but they are really nothing more then insects who make noise. It works on the forums but in the vastness of space, they are so very tiny.

Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2013-11-12 23:18:57 UTC
Jessica Braun wrote:
Taal Khurin wrote:
I still do not get all the fascination with greifing miners etc. There seems to be so many threads devoted to it, it almost seems like a miner touched them in a naughty place when they were young or something.

It's also strangely really only a vaguely recent thing, up until a couple of years ago you rarely heard about suicide ganking barges.


It's not as prevalent as they would like us to believe. A handful of vocal kids with limited motor skills picked some choice systems to take out a handful of mostly ignorant and ill-equipped miners. Bonus for them is that they are led by someone with a lot of time on his hands to Photoshop chat logs and run a blog. They should get a tip-of-the-hat for their marketing but they are really nothing more then insects who make noise. It works on the forums but in the vastness of space, they are so very tiny.


What surprises me most is that the average ignorant, ill-equipped miner is hell bent on believing that they can't do anything about getting ganked/griefed.

I blow them up all the time and link them a guide on how to tank and pilot to avoid getting ganked. Most will simply deny that they can do anything about it and continue whining and **** fitting their barges and sitting on the warp in spot in belts and ice fields stationary...