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Balancing Feedback: Tier3 Battlecruisers

First post
Author
OT Smithers
Perkone
Caldari State
#801 - 2011-11-18 23:08:05 UTC
Vincent Gaines wrote:
Phantomania wrote:

I'll settle for the Launcher Hardpoints without bonus's, just to get 8 heavies on there!


Then you can complain that your torps don't hit anything and your ship always dies in a fire? Without the range, damage, and radial bonus a torp boat will be worthless. Go read up on the first half of this thread- exactly how terrible the Naga was EVEN WITH BONUSES.
Phantomania wrote:
Oh, cause you can't, its ineffective and stupid, but then if another pilot can, what does that make you?



Wait.. wait wait wait wait wait..

Are you posting the position that you are upset still that this ship doesn't have slots for what you want to do, and that thing you wanted to do was not even what the ship was intended to do in the first place?

That's like being mad that Jeep didn't make the Cherokee fast enough to use on a race track.


I'm sorry, but it's your fault for skilling only missiles and caldari ships.


They they should fix the BS missiles while they are at it.

If Caldari are to be saddled with their alternate weapon system then the other races should as well. The Tornado should be missiles only, the Talos drones only, etc.
JessiJames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#802 - 2011-11-18 23:13:14 UTC  |  Edited by: JessiJames
Vincent Gaines wrote:

Speaking of the Talos.....

In every engagement I have had against a Tornado, I have been unable to "catch" it, even if we start at 11km.

This ship needs not a drone bay, but a web range bonus. I say give the thing 15% web range per level. and drop the damage bonus (use the bonus given to hybrids in the generic buff.

- drop drone bay (again)
- keep tracking bonus
- web range bonus 10% per level
- increase max speed to allow it to close
- reduce sig radius slightly

Now you have a GUNship that can get in closer.



THIS. Said it before, can't say it too often.

CCP Ytterbium said web bonus ".... also lead to other issues, like acting as a cheap, effective tackle" but seriously, let this ship be good at SOMETHING. If you remove 1 Midslot it can not fit 2 webs for the same effect (i.e. 90% webs) without loosing point or MWD, so it shouldn't be overpowered with extended webrange.

Now with Naga im quite happy (its too slow, can't say that often enough, too).
Sigras
Conglomo
#803 - 2011-11-18 23:16:20 UTC
well the plates and armor rigs youre going to fit with a talos pretty much take care of that speed advantage, The oracle might be able to use a slight speed buff, but its already quite powerful
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#804 - 2011-11-19 00:00:47 UTC
Phantomania wrote:
SMT008 wrote:


Those ships ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO DO ANY KIND OF SOLO PVE.

ARE NOT.




Amazing, I havn't read anywhere that pilots are NOT ALLOWED TO DO SOLO PVE in the Tier3BCs, could you post a link with this information please.

Does that mean you get concorded if your able to and you do?

And I don't like the Drake, its ZZZzzzz!


It's directly stated in their role that they are not meant to be used in solo PvE.

They are meant for taking out battlecruisers (I think), battleships (for sure) and being pillars of DPS with tackle support and additional support in the form of standard BCs and battleships. In a sense, the whole testing of these ships is skewed because, as far as I can tell, three quarters of the people flying these BCs are flying them as solo ships. And that's why they say they're terrible.

You meanwhile, do not understand that these ships were designed from the ground up as PvP fleet vessels, and are turning into a serious backpfeifengesicht*. Stop it. Stop now.

*A backpfeifengesicht is a face that is need of being slapped. Probably hard.
OT Smithers
Perkone
Caldari State
#805 - 2011-11-19 01:13:14 UTC
Caldari are reported to be the most commonly played race in the game.

Historically many Caldari players have not invested valuable training time into hybrids for obvious reasons. 1. Caldari's main weapon is missiles, 2. Hybrids have always sucked, 3. Caldari Hybrid boats are unimpressive. Prior to this announcement only an idiot Caldari pilot would have invested the time to train hybrids.

A great many Caldari pilots feel like they have been given the short end of the stick for a long time when it comes to PvP -- which is why most train out of Caldari and into a PvP race once they understand the game better. With these new T3 BC's, CCP is doing nothing to correct this.

When this expansion launches there are going to be a LOT of angry Caldari pilots who will feel that CCP added new PvP ships for everyone but them.

Cap Tyrian
Guiding Hand Social Club
#806 - 2011-11-19 01:24:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Cap Tyrian
My reply got eaten, here goes again -.-

CCP Ytterbium wrote:

TALOS

  • 25m3 dronebay and bandwidth added

So, while we are looking at the blaster situation, we agreed giving the Talos a bit more survability against smaller threats was a good compromise for the time being.




Quote:
We will maybe consider reintroducing its 25m3 drone bay if it is found really underperforming, but this is really unlikely for the moment



This is a hard read, you found the Talos to be "hopelessly underperforming" so your drastically buffing it with 25m3 of meaningless drones.
5 small drones may scar a t1 frig, 5 small ecm drones may give you a chance of running away from that lonely anything.
Ok, They may have their use and can ad 100dps but this douse not compensate for anything really.

But as you stated its "a good compromise for the time being" that reads to me like-
-Here this is the Talos, it is a bit broken but maybe someday someone may fix it, but don't give it too much hope.

Its a new ship, can you not at least motivate me buy make it look usable for at least some rear specific occasions on paper, to get me enthusiastic enough to go and find out how useless it is in space.

Let's take this argumentation a step further and assume someone someday fixes armor tanking.
The Talos has roughly 10k ehp with lvl5 skills no tank mods, a rack of 1400mm would 1shot it easily. Ad all active armor tank and no damage mods and it would survive 9.5sec

Unless some new hull tanking mods are FOTM it has a dramatic weakness to alpha, making winmatar even better.

Would only the web bonus without the drones make it OP? Maybe, but it would at least be usable for something.
Some ask for a web range bonus. At what cost? the tracking bonus so you can't hit what you caught or the mandatory damage bonus. The web strength bonus is the only way, that or be creative and go way out of the box.


Lets take the Brutix in to consideration / justification. It has 2x the tank, has actual armor tanking potential, can dish out over 1000 dps with med guns shredding small stuff allot harder at web range. It's cheaper and it can actually outrun BS fire.

Eric Cartman wrote:

  • Can I borrow some of your lipstick mom? Because I at least want to look pretty the next time you f**k me.

:)
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#807 - 2011-11-19 03:03:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Rip Minner
Pinky Denmark wrote:
People claiming that caldari is all about missiles and gallente all about drones are wrong and need to get away from their narrow track of thoughts... Caldari have some good missile ships and Gallente have some nice drone ships - But Hybrids are still our legacy and with a few tweaks here and there they will be just as effecient or much more than missiles/drones.
You guys should be happy to get some versatility and trust me a Hybrid Naga will be better than a Torp Naga even if you will need a different aproach.

I believe however we have a problem with the current Tier 3 BCs in the lack of a clear purpose.
It seems as CCP wanted to give the battlecrusiers battleship weapons, however currently the only thing they are really good at is sniping/suicide ganking because up and close I'd rather want to use tier 2 BC's with double EHP and almost same dps...

This said they all seem pretty balanced among themself. Imo it's too easy to fit the largest long range weapons though and the Tornado might still be just a little bit too fast. I really believe the Talos drone bonus ruins the concept without adding much to the Talos. I would make sure these ships had a signature radious closer to 150m enabling them even better to fight battleships and bigger. with their current low hitpoints, no bonus for tank and lack of drones/utility slots this is exactly what they should be good at.

Pinky



The line of you guys should be happy to get some versatility just do's not add up when.

1.) CCP releases two differnt flavors of Hybird ships. Reather limiting dont you think? And not just for this Teir 3 BC's ether.

2.) CCP releases Minmatar and Amarr with there races primary weapon systems but fails to release the Caldari/Gallente versions with there primary weapon systems. And yes Missiles are the Caldari primary weapon system and Drones being the Gallente primary weapon system is on a thin line as most of Gallente ships do have bonus primarly for Hybirds how ever it's the Drone ships that mainly get used and Gallente ships normaly have bigger drone bays and more drone bandwidth then other ships over all.

3.) Hybirds out side of smaller fleet fights and roaming ganks suck. Not all hybirds most can agre that Captial and small hybirds are just fine. Med hybirds and Large hybirds are what's primaly in question. As over all for cruiser/BC/and BS Hybirds just dont cut the mustered for Major fleet fights and that's becouse of game mechanic changes and the fact that Hybirds are meant to be the middle line and support weapon system for Caldari Missiles and Gallente drones.

So yes there is trueth to the fact that Missiles are Caldari primary weapons. Even though Cruise/Torps kind of suffer right now. And yes Gallente primary weapons are drones. And you would see this ships and there weapon systems if they were fixed to be on par with Projectials and Lazers more in major fleet fights.

If you want Caldari BS's in major fleet fights fix BS missles and give the Raven 8xMissile points and the added cpu/gride to fit them.

If you want Gallente BS's in major fleet fights fix the holes in drone's like Low slot dmg modules and Drone hardwireing.

Till then you will never see any kind of strong Caldire/Gallente fleet make up for major fleet battles. And the ones you do see will most likely be for there EW ships. Or for drones or heavy missiles but most diffently will not be there for the greatness of Large or med Hybirds or BS missiles. Though Torps are great for pos bashing but lack a non-Maurader platform for them. Not even counting the fact that that double missile dmg and fewer missiles is a nerf as now 1 defender missile will effectively remove two missiles worth of dmg.

So here's for hoping CCP can fig out that whats great for Guns is not always great for Missiles. But funny thing is whats great for guns is great for Drones as there nothing less then moblie guns so plz just give use drone users a low slot drone dmg module or double the Drone Bandwidth and drone bays and let us use a BS verson of Drone Control Unit's. Becouse Drone dmg on the Dominix has fallen way behind here compared to Projectials and Lazers.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.

Planetmaster
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#808 - 2011-11-19 04:08:37 UTC
OT Smithers wrote:
Vincent Gaines wrote:
Phantomania wrote:

I'll settle for the Launcher Hardpoints without bonus's, just to get 8 heavies on there!


Then you can complain that your torps don't hit anything and your ship always dies in a fire? Without the range, damage, and radial bonus a torp boat will be worthless. Go read up on the first half of this thread- exactly how terrible the Naga was EVEN WITH BONUSES.
Phantomania wrote:
Oh, cause you can't, its ineffective and stupid, but then if another pilot can, what does that make you?



Wait.. wait wait wait wait wait..

Are you posting the position that you are upset still that this ship doesn't have slots for what you want to do, and that thing you wanted to do was not even what the ship was intended to do in the first place?

That's like being mad that Jeep didn't make the Cherokee fast enough to use on a race track.


I'm sorry, but it's your fault for skilling only missiles and caldari ships.


They they should fix the BS missiles while they are at it.

If Caldari are to be saddled with their alternate weapon system then the other races should as well. The Tornado should be missiles only, the Talos drones only, etc.



Gallente are drones Or blasters :) ? Its tricky ;) i think that they are tourist :)
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#809 - 2011-11-19 04:28:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Rip Minner
Mara Rinn wrote:
I was successfully running L4 missions in the Naga when it was still a torpedo boat (and I don't have T2 torp skills).

I'm not sure why people are convinced it was such a "fail" boat. I was having fun, then CCP took my shiny toy from me Evil In the meantime, I still have the tengu I'm flying, and then the CNR to train into.


Short of it is that Missiles and Drones make lag so that makes Gallente and Caldari the Red Headed Step Child that CCP likes to kick in the nuts and tell us its a good thing by trying to force Hybirds onto both of us.Ugh

Long of it is at the same time they dont want to make all gunnery weapons systems the same and no one wants that ether. Projectails fill there roles well as Artillery is best Alph and Autocannons are the best skirmish weapons in the game as it should be. Lazers fill there roles well to as Beams range dps and Pulses med to close dps.

So what gunnery role's are open to be filled by Hybirds that will not step of the roles of the other two. Rails best extrem ranged dps with witch there is curraintly no use for ingame and blasters as the point blank defence system that will brake CCP's stated game balance of no Large weapon systems being good at killing smaller ships. But there slowly geting blasters to that point blank defence role anyways with a 20% base tracking speed inc.

And on top of that there are alot of pissed off Caldari and Gallente pilots that could realy care less about Hybirds they want there BS Missiles and BS Missile platforms fixed and Gallente drone users want the drone holes filled like low slot drone dmg modules or a doubling of the drone bandwidth and drone bays and the ablity to fit Drone control units to get are drone dps up to par with Projectails and Lazers. And to fix the over site of no Drone hardwiring.

And to just rebalance are ships as a hole to be centered on drones way more then Hybirds. i.e. Dominix remove the 5% hybird dmg and replace it with a 7-10% to armor hitpoints.

Mega inc drone bay to match Dominix replace 5% hybird dmg and replace it with the 10% drone/dmg/hit bonus. It mite have 8 high slots but it only can fit the same number of hybirds as the Dominix anyways so its no bigge it's stuck right now halve way between being ether a great hybird platform or drone platform thats not fully reached for ether pve or pvp till you trade it in for a realy Hybird platform like the Vindicator anyways and many many Drone using gallente pilots will rejoice.

Keep the Hyperion as the Hybird ship.

Edit: I stoped there as I could list every BC/Cruiser ect. ect. for Gallente and there's no real need for that. And Caldari missils from frigs to BC's sizes are good it's mostly BS missiles and there lack of a 8 slot missile ship in the Tech 1 BS range.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.

Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#810 - 2011-11-19 04:48:54 UTC
Vincent Gaines wrote:
InsomniaHUN wrote:
if someone wants to use hybrid, use the gallante cruiser....



Why do people still make this stupid comment?



The real question is why is CCP pushing out 2xHybird platforms. If you dont like the Lemonaid in the glass cup thats ok becouse we also have Lemonaid in a plastic cup too? WTF

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.

Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#811 - 2011-11-19 05:05:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Rip Minner
Vincent Gaines wrote:
Sir Fury wrote:

Validity doesn't apply, we're all throwing out opinions based on our own prejudices. & my answer is a simple one. Variety.

Hybrid, Lazors, & Projectile capable pilots have a ship to fly. Those in Missiles don't. The reasoning has been primarily because missiles suck, in other words, would not fulfill the original purpose these ships were meant to serve. That saying, its still questionable whether the Talos will either.
In the end whether or not all the ships are able to perform "there intended" function, 1 or 2 ships, in this case the Tornado & maybe the Oracle, will overshadow the Talos & the Naga, hybrid or Launcher, unless further changes are made.

With the current game mechanics, maybe a hybrid Naga does perform better than a missile Naga.
As I said before, if CCP''s going to roll out a hybrid Naga for now, & will consider adding missile options later when they get around to making BS Missiles PvP compatible, its probably ok. Otherwise that's just them saying fixing missiles is just too hard work & we won't do it. That's not very good for the game. & in all honesty, with the "buffed hybrids" still a mess, getting around to missiles is a bit of a pipe dream.
So I say, let the missile capable pilots die in their Nagas. Us Hybrid pilots have 1 ship to play with, even if it needs improvements. Having 2 hybrid ships not only puts the 2 in direct competition (a battle of losers in my view, where there's no prize to be gained - like football spectators fighting while the actual players duke it out - looking at you Tornado & Oracle) with type of tank being the only distinction, its also boring.

TL:DR Let all the main weapon systems be represented for some variety. Despite CCP trying to pigeonhole these new BCs for a specific role, us players will likely choose the best of the lot for that purpose, & find another uses for the rest, if their lucky.

p.s. For a more selfish & irrational reasoning, being a Gallente pilot, I dislike the idea of a Caldari ship having a hybrid platform, which also may turn out to be better than our Hybrid platform. As bad as they are, Hybrids have traditionally been strongest amongst the Gallente. I want to keep it that way. But thats just possessive ol me.P



Crap, that's a really good response. Finally.

I agree in many ways on what you said.

If they want to make a missile Naga, it would take a whole lot of fine tuning to be viable, lest it become extremely niche (anti-capital large bomber).

It would need to have 3 bonuses.
10% torpedo velocity
10% explosion radius
10% explosion velocity

This should, and mind you I'm theorycrafting and don't have a spreadsheet or any of that crap, but make it somewhat viable. You would also need to adjust the PG and CPU as early on there were reports of fitting issues.

The ship would need to be faster also, as it's kinda slow. the engagement range would need to be between 30-70km.

I still believe it would die horribly 1v1 with any of the other tier 3 BCs but I digress.

Speaking of the Talos.....

In every engagement I have had against a Tornado, I have been unable to "catch" it, even if we start at 11km.

This ship needs not a drone bay, but a web range bonus. I say give the thing 15% web range per level. and drop the damage bonus (use the bonus given to hybrids in the generic buff.

- drop drone bay (again)
- keep tracking bonus
- web range bonus 10% per level
- increase max speed to allow it to close
- reduce sig radius slightly

Now you have a GUNship that can get in closer.


Ya but you do know thats the same problem with omost every blaster ships ranging from cruiser to BS right. What your saying is hybirds are still not fixed to the degree that every blaster ships from Cruiser size to BS size needs a EW bonus in order to fuction right.

News flash we already know Hybirds were still broken junk so the Nage mite as well get it's own Caldari flavor of broken junk in Torps and Cruise missiles.

And let Drone pilots get there less broken junk of a drone boat reather then another Fail rail caldari ship that mite make a better ganking blaster ship then the gallente ganker.

Why becouse there are already alot of Fail/ganking Hybird ships already so give some love to the Missile and Drone users. Mostly drone users becouse we dont have nearly the number of sub-capital drone ships to pick from.

Edit: FYI I am crosstrained to every race and weapons system sub-captial. So I do have first hand user experiance with the vast majority of ships/weapons and even EW.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.

Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#812 - 2011-11-19 05:23:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Rip Minner
OT Smithers wrote:
Vincent Gaines wrote:
Phantomania wrote:

I'll settle for the Launcher Hardpoints without bonus's, just to get 8 heavies on there!


Then you can complain that your torps don't hit anything and your ship always dies in a fire? Without the range, damage, and radial bonus a torp boat will be worthless. Go read up on the first half of this thread- exactly how terrible the Naga was EVEN WITH BONUSES.
Phantomania wrote:
Oh, cause you can't, its ineffective and stupid, but then if another pilot can, what does that make you?



Wait.. wait wait wait wait wait..

Are you posting the position that you are upset still that this ship doesn't have slots for what you want to do, and that thing you wanted to do was not even what the ship was intended to do in the first place?

That's like being mad that Jeep didn't make the Cherokee fast enough to use on a race track.


I'm sorry, but it's your fault for skilling only missiles and caldari ships.


They they should fix the BS missiles while they are at it.

If Caldari are to be saddled with their alternate weapon system then the other races should as well. The Tornado should be missiles only, the Talos drones only, etc.


Why do all Caldari pilots think that Crap Hybirds are the main weapon sytem of Gallente it's not its are secondary weapon system too. Drones are the main Gallente weapon system. For the love of god there are many times many Gallente pilots that want are ships reworked to better show this as well as have the holes in drones filled in and no alot of them do not vist this forms very offten. Now if there was some kind of posted Drone boat balancing you could bet your bottom dollar alot more then me would be here right now.

Edit: How ever we compleetly feel your pain over geting Crapy Large Hybirds forced onto yet another ship when both of us could have realy used a good dps boost two are BS sized weapon systems of Torps/Cruises and Drones. Having your first 8x Battle Ship Missile Boat that's in the tier 1 and not a totaly crap over priced piece crap Marauder would have done that for you even if it came at the cost of a real BS tank. And it could have done the same for Drone users too on the Gallente side.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.

Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#813 - 2011-11-19 05:45:22 UTC
OT Smithers wrote:
Caldari are reported to be the most commonly played race in the game.

Historically many Caldari players have not invested valuable training time into hybrids for obvious reasons. 1. Caldari's main weapon is missiles, 2. Hybrids have always sucked, 3. Caldari Hybrid boats are unimpressive. Prior to this announcement only an idiot Caldari pilot would have invested the time to train hybrids.

A great many Caldari pilots feel like they have been given the short end of the stick for a long time when it comes to PvP -- which is why most train out of Caldari and into a PvP race once they understand the game better. With these new T3 BC's, CCP is doing nothing to correct this.

When this expansion launches there are going to be a LOT of angry Caldari pilots who will feel that CCP added new PvP ships for everyone but them.



I agree with what your saying 100%. But would like to point out that even though Gallente pilots are not reported to be as many as you Caldari but there are still a fair number of use too.

And alot of Gallente pilots agree that Drones are the main Gallente weapon and mostly fit AutoCannons to are drone ships that are way to few in number sub-capital wise to begin with. Are going to feel the same way about this Hybird Gallente Talos too.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.

Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#814 - 2011-11-19 05:55:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Rip Minner
I hope all you people that want Hybirds over Torps do realise that the only reason Hybirds are geting relanced in the first place was that CCP finally had no choice but to address the fact that there just that bad and were only being used as much as they were do to a Wormhole problem that you can see here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrYe_4vHzgE .

And now that there on this road to fixing stuff or at least trying to fix stuff that Missiles or even Drones could be on the next patch as a reblance to better bring them into line with other weapon systems.

Edit: What that means is there's probly going to be a good Missile reblancing patch with in the next two Free updates.

Edit: I would also like to take the time to point out that if the lossing side had been using proproper Capless Guns like Projectials and using a strong tanked and strong capator Carrier like the wining side did reather then the Minmatars underwelleming ones and cap hungery Lazers and Hybirds they probly would have won that first fight at the hole.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.

Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#815 - 2011-11-19 07:17:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jhagiti Tyran
Rip Minner wrote:
Why do all Caldari pilots think that Crap Hybirds are the main weapon sytem of Gallente it's not its are secondary weapon system too. Drones are the main Gallente weapon system.


Count how many drone focused/bonused Gallente ships there are and how many hyrbid focused/bonused ships there are and then think about it a little bit. Also way to sextuple post, there is an edit button so have a think about that to.
Phantomania
Lonely Trek
#816 - 2011-11-19 08:38:29 UTC


If you dont like the Lemonade in the glass cup, its ok, because we also have Lemonade in a plastic cup too?

I love this, and it actually explains the Talos/Naga issue perfectly!


Btw, I wonder why CCP Devs are not commenting, are they avoiding the situation?
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#817 - 2011-11-19 08:41:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Rip Minner
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Rip Minner wrote:
Why do all Caldari pilots think that Crap Hybirds are the main weapon sytem of Gallente it's not its are secondary weapon system too. Drones are the main Gallente weapon system.


Count how many drone focused/bonused Gallente ships there are and how many hyrbid focused/bonused ships there are and then think about it a little bit. Also way to sextuple post, there is an edit button so have a think about that to.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Gallente

Champions of liberty and fierce guardians of the human spirit, the Gallente Federation is the only true democracy in New Eden. Some of the most progressive leaders, scientists, and businessmen of the era have emerged from its diverse peoples. Pioneers of artificial intelligence, the Federation once relied almost entirely on drone fleets to defend its beliefs and borders. But the limitations of this technology and the lack of a human element—both in terms of a military strategy, and as a means of spreading influence— eventually reached a critical point. Today, Gallentean starships are manned by some of the bravest men and women of New Eden.

Ya cant wonder why we Gallentes belive that Drones are the main weapon system of Gallentes.

Count ships ok lets start at the top with BS

BS carry has to have at least 125m3 drone bandwidth and at the very least at least 125m3 done bay lets look now at BS's

Tier 1 Dominix 125m3 Drone bandwidth and 375m3 drone bay with a drone dmg bonus on ship.

tier 2 Megathron it has 2 hybird weapon bonus on ship but lets look at the fittings opps only 6 turrent points but to make up for that its also a drone ships with 125m3 drone bandwidth and 125m3 drone bay so 1/1 hybirds and drones.

tier 3 Hyperion Hybirds.

So thats 2 ships for Hybirds and 2 ships for drones. Even Steven so far.

How about Tech 2 ships lets take a look there.

Sin whats this 125m3 drone bandwidth and 400m3 drone bay and drone dmg bonus

The Marauder Kronos is differntly a Hybird ship with slightly enhanced Drone bay for more drone flexablity but still primarly a Hybird ship.

So still even steven on Hybirds and Drone ships at 1/1 Tech 2 BS's.

Now one to tech 1 Gallente cruisers.

Cruiser drone carryers have to have at least 50m3 drone bandwidth and atleast the same in drone bay.

Celestis is a EW ship so I dont realy think its weapons realy count. But if you look at it there is a hybird bonus but its only got 3 turret hardpoints and 2 launcher and 40m3 drone bandwidth/bay so its weapons lay out is kind of all over the place becouse its main role is EW. So not counting this one for ether hybirds or drones.

Exequror is a Logi/hualer ship and it has no weapon bonus but has 4 turret hardpoints and 40m3 Drone bandwidth/bay again not counting this one as ether a hybird or drone ship.

Thorax Diffently a Hybird ship. But it do's full fill the base needs of also being a drone carry with 50m3 Drone bandwidth/bay so its a 1/1 1 for hybirds and 1 for drone carryers both. Ship bonus are hybird dmg and Micro warpdrive and so the final results is its the best blaster hybird tech 1 cruiser making it over shadow its drone carry bandwidth/bay.

Vexor Drone ships hands down 75m3 Drone bandwidth and 100m3 drone bay. 4 turrent hardpoints and ship bonus for both hybirds and drones but drone carry it diffently is.

So that's basicly even Steven again with 1/1 for both hybirds and drone carrys.

Ok thats were I stop as it would take way to much posting space to keep coming up Even Steven across most of the Gallente fleet for both hybirds and drones.

So with basicly even spacing for both Hybird and drone ships across most of the fleet it comes down to role playing story lines. That and doing drones better then any other race kind of makes us the drone race when combinded with the back story for the race and has been that way for year after year after year. So ya Drones are the primery weapon system of Gallentes and it's firmly in the minds of many as such.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.

Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#818 - 2011-11-19 09:23:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Rip Minner
Jhagiti Tyran wrote:
Rip Minner wrote:
Why do all Caldari pilots think that Crap Hybirds are the main weapon sytem of Gallente it's not its are secondary weapon system too. Drones are the main Gallente weapon system.


Count how many drone focused/bonused Gallente ships there are and how many hyrbid focused/bonused ships there are and then think about it a little bit. Also way to sextuple post, there is an edit button so have a think about that to.



And also instead of counting how many Hybird bonus ships there are why not try looking into the fact that only One hybird ships at each tech level and class are used and only one drone ship is used in each class.

Then take another step back to get a even better look at what Gallente ships are truely being used.

Can you guess what the most used Gallente ships are? Dominix? Myrmidon? Vexor? Ishtar? Lachesis/Arazu witch are EW ships.

And I will be truethfull and say I dont know much about how the Gallente frigs work as I only ever fly the Covert Ops ones both for bomber and scaning.

And weather or not Hybirds have been broken for the last two years makes no differnts becouse Drones have been broken over the last two years as well with no good way to raise are Drone dps to match that of projectiles and lazers.

No drone hardwiring.

No drone dmg modules or a rework of drone ships to double the bandwidth and bays and adding drone control units to them. Ether way this would go along way bring drone dps up to par with Projectiles and Lazers. The drone dmg modules should be low slots like all other dmg modules and probly would be both the best for lag and easyest for all to grasp and understand.

Only Sentry drone dmg rigs.

No tech 2 drone modules at least till this expation but then again Hybirds probly got buffed around as much as drones did by finely get tech 2 modules.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.

SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#819 - 2011-11-19 09:46:43 UTC
Is EVE a game for spacewarrior and badass spacefleet commanders, or is this some sort of place for whiny kids ?

Yes, the Naga will be using turrets.

And then what ? Is that a SO BIG DEAL that you have to come here and sextuple post about how gallente uses drones and all that ?

Hint : It's not.
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#820 - 2011-11-19 10:00:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Ganthrithor
Good god... you people. How how HOW can you complain about two new ships using hybrids and advocate for the new Gallente / Caldari BCs to use drones / missiles?

Have you ever ~*used*~ drones or missiles in PvP? They're absolutely terrible! Drones are glitchy, subject to being killed quickly and easily independently of their carrier, and hampered with speed and tracking problems that make them ineffective combat tools. Missiles, aside from heavies, are utter **** for PvP as well-- first there's the travel time problem, then there's the fact that none of the non-medium missile systems do any damage. Rockets and lights are just pathetically awful in terms of DPS and their ability to hit their intended (small, fast moving) targets for decent damage. Cruises / torps are similarly useless in that they can't do proper damage to anything other than battleships or larger.

There's a reason you don't see fleets of Ravens and Dominixes (the two month obsession with Das Boot fleets aside) on the field. Drones suck. Rockets suck. Light missiles suck. Cruises are at best "not good." Torps are almost completely worthless vs things smaller than POS. Only heavy missiles are anywhere near useful for PvP, which, when combined with the absolutely broken stats on the tier 2 Caldari BC is why 3/4 of EVE PvP these days consists of DrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakesDrakes.

Drones and missiles are bad for PvP. If a moronic subset of Caldari pilots really wishes to saddle themselves with yet another missile boat, fine, but leave Gallente out of it. I'll keep my blasters, thanks very much.

By the way, this is coming from someone who has (between all characters) every cruiser 5, all battleship 5's, and has flown ships from all races. It's not like I don't speak from experience.