Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Wow. Just wow.

I mean, not that it's surprising me that you still think the negative feedback is backing you up, but are we even reading the same thread?
These changes have been announced for what, 3 days? And the feedback thread is already close to 50 pages of mostly negative feedback (which is already more than most of the other threads that have been here for weeks) , yet you still mention that there's some kind of magical balance of people likeing and disliking it. "The feedback is mixed in this thread." - is it really tho? I haven't seen a single elaborate and conclusive post about how this is a good change at all, and a plentiful of reasons why it's terrible.

Your main issue is with RLMLs being the best weapon of choice, yet you choose to completely ignore that this is only because of the fact that Heavy Missiles have been overnerfed so badly. You also choose to ignore that this change has been announced on way too short of a notice and aren't neither giving people the time to test them, nor yourself the time to adjust them so we end up with a useful weapon system. Instead, you chose to push it through anyways (as expected I might add), without getting any feeling for whether this will be completely overpowered in blobs of alphaing RLML ships or it will end up with two more missile systems that noone ever uses. Not that this kind of thing hasn't happened before, but you would expect people to learn from mistakes.

If you're really so much into this idea, at least push it to Rubicon 1.1 and don't run with a change that hasn't hit Sisi yet at all. It's a can of worms that shouldn't hit TQ like this, ever.

Rize, this is simply just a slap in the face.

Carefully followed? Yah ok... essentially is you giving a complete cop out responses, for reasons why this poor idea- being rushed through days before rubicon, with no SiSi or internal testing is going to be fine. How much time did you really have to 'discuss' these types of things? It has only been a matter of days with ZERO PLAY TESTING. No one in the CSM or CCP have the understanding to sit around making thought experiments about how this change is going to completely invalidate a weapon system. Players are not saying that they are viable rize. Again listen to some of the very experienced small gang . solo pilots posting in this thread.

I am awstruck that you have the audacity to come into this thread and somehow claim that the argument is mixed. I have read, every post- in every page. And it is not mixed. It is OVERWHELMINGLY negative, with only a few special (non PvP snowflakes) somehow thinking this idea has any merit.

Secondly, RLML"s are not the best in all situations. Take the time to actually load EFT and look at the math. What other missile based weapon system do you plan to use? HMLs and HAM's are complete trash for solo and small gang, Period. RLM"s are proliferating, simply because we have nothing left after the HML nerf.

Thirdly, I find it comical that again you find the feed about 40 SECONDS of reload 'mixed.' Are you even reading the same thread as me? Again, responses in this thread have been overwhelmingly negative, and in no way shape or form does 40 Second reload timers create any kind of tension, or interesting game play. You even admit 'it is a valid complaint' we will look at it, but for now- just deal with a **** poor mechanic for many, many months.

Homogenization, as if change for the sake of change is somehow good for the game? You honestly think that COMPLETELY destroying a weapon system, and throwing in another 100% new, untested, and unproved launcher is good game play?

I am simply awestruck by how completely, and intentionally ignorant you have become. The fact that you have willingly walked over almost every credible opinion in this thread, and somehow think that the comparison of artillery to RLM's is somehow relevant. They are nothing alike. Arty can reload, and doesn't have cool down time. It has alpha, not some bull **** 'front loaded damage' mechanic.

You think that we will come out of this with a very fun weapon system? Really why do you think that rize? Where is the math? Where is the internal testing? Where is the SiSi testing? RHML's are ****, because they shoot un-bonsed HMLs. RLML's are **** because (Like the RHML's) have a 40 second reload time, no ammo swapping.

PS- It is CLEAR to me you don't play the game. And it is clear to most solo / small gang players that you, along with the vast majority of CCP continue to make changes to the PvP landscape, that are un-needed, gimicky, or have no actual relevance on the meta.

I challenge you to show me camping any high sec station. Please stop makign assumptions. We mostly hunt in pairs or trios and when i say hunt we really HUNT targets, looking for war targets using locators and probing.


And math is always right when it says somethign is not possible. WHen someoen said (dont remember who) that one of the caracals with new rapids would overpower a BC, I have to call that #!#!#. BEcause there is not enough missiles to even eat half a layer of defense.

My cerb/caracal example was cerb vs cerb or caracal vs caracal (on both cases old vs new weapon).

I think after last update I lost completely any faith of game balance for small scale in this game. People simply do not want to listen to math. And I doubt this will be revisited after the damage is done. Things will go to a balck hole, liek the tempest that I have seens not a SINGLE ONE in high sec since the update ( sure some must be around, but so rare that I never crossed with one again).


And rise.. when peopel complain about homogenization, they are talking about things like "increasing minmatar HP and reducign their speed, making them just a gallente variation"

Rise, Why even have a features and ideas discussion form?

You just come down from the mountain, after talking with the CSM (As if they have any possible experience, or relevance in small gang / solo / PvP in general). Most of the CSM trash are 0.0 political bloc leaders, that have no relevant PvP experience- outside of blobs.

You contribute nothing to these threads, other than telling us 'how its going to be' and notify us of 'discussions' that you had with apparently, everyone but the concerned people in this thread.

Its almost as if your ego is bruised, and you intentionally turn a blind eye towards any naysayers, while continuing to post these puke onto page bull **** posts about 'homogenization', 'I feel' , 'mixed feedback' and other talking point bullshit to simply ram your original and unchanged idea through.

Why don't you do everyone a ******* favor, and stop posting balance threads. If you are going to shove your arrogant, misinformed, and **** poor ideas down our throats- stop making the pretense of a feed back forum.

The real joke in this case, is not only do we not have in play testing game play feed back to give you, but you have no testing to share with us as well. Just talk of your 'discussions' with CSM and CCP, and your 'feelings' about how fun a weapon system will be.

Stop the ******* charade already.

Most of CSM that are from PVP groups are from alliances, so solo or very small gangs are irrelevant for them.

You do know we go out in small groups as well right. Don't need to form up 100 shots to clear a 5 man camp

Really???

Your just gonna close your eyes for all the good arguments to NOT do it, and go with it anyway???
Why ask for opinions in the first place???
90% of this topic is AGAINST it... And they bring good arguments too.....

Way to go CCP...

CCP Rise on hearing that people don't like his idea:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lCuZfWk6BA lol

Well I was pretty interested in this one thread, and so I have been through almost every post in it twice now. I understand a lot more about the issues now, though do not have the time in game and experience to understand it all completely. There are a couple of things I will take away from this.

Has such a feedback thread in this game actually caused a change before? I cannot say since this is the first one I have followed. It seems from this one that "feedback" threads are likely pretty useless. The decision here was pretty obviously already made when the issue was posted for feedback. No one could read through this thread and objectively and honestly concluded that the positive feedback came anywhere close to the amount of negative feedback. The issue was also posted too late for it to have been so intended, allowing too little time, if the issue were ever truly up for decision.

While I know my time and experience here are too short and little to be sure as to this next conclusion, and what I am saying as to it comes from scattered reading here and elsewhere, and from being in fleets ingame and reading and hearing the comments of others, it sure seems a new player should be clearly warned against spending time training into Caldari. Most of their ships seem to heavily depend on missiles, and it seems pretty clear missiles are an inferior weapon system as far as the other choices, when training times and everything is considered, at least for PVP. For whatever reason, there is a sense that missiles are just not a weapon system that CCP likes itself as much as the others. On my main character I have apparently wasted a lot of my paid for training time in that any idea about "fixing" missiles is always going to be something they do not presently have time for, although they as herein shown always have time to continue to make them less equal.

50 seconds of shooting..

at what.. 340 dps with faction? At nearly perfect application against a webbed target and great against a non webbed?

so a really conservative estimation would be to do around 15k raw damage in that time... Uhm, exactly how will this not shred frigates?


But yea this probably wouldn't be over powered with about 10 seconds more on the clock.



EDIT: I'd like to point out that i don't really agree with the change. I think RLML's are op but thats mostly because LML's are op, rlml's just inherit that. Decrease the flight time and application of lml's and volla, you've fixed rlml's as well.