Jita Park Speakers Corner

I saw one of the CSM comment that they went back and forth on the issue of immunity for black ops cynos to the new deployable cyno jammers.

I live in Provi, and we often have to deal with people roaming around in interdiction nullified T3 cruisers, who won't engage you unless they have overwhelming superiority in numbers. It's annoying, because I'd rather see more equal fleets run into each other and engage in a big fight where the outcome isn't assured for either side. Those fights, by far, are where Eve is at it's best, in my opinion.

We don't live in deep nullsec, and don't have bubbles up on all of our gates. People out ratting or mining do get blown up on a regular basis. That's how it should be. It's nullsec, after all.

But after the patch, it seems like there is going to be a very real chance that the risk vs. reward balance will become quite skewed in favor of risk. Why?

Cov ops ships are going to warp very fast. As fast as this:
Rubicon warp acceleration comparison

Throw in a black ops cyno, and you'll be able to jump into a system (or log on), warp to an asteroid cluster or the high-end anom, and have a fleet there in well under 30 seconds.

And the only counter is to keep a similar sized fleet ready to go at all times, which for smaller alliances or people who play outside of core times, basically means that we just won't be ratting or mining under those circumstances anymore.

The deployable cyno jammer would have been a solid counter to all of this (including the afk cloakers who sit around for days on end). People would still lose ships, just as they do now, but it would have afforded us some measure of protection.

So, my question to the CSM is this: Why did some of you choose to support black ops immunity to the new deployable cyno jammer?



TLDR; The new warp speed changes on cov ops ships, which can fit black ops cloaks, will allow people to jump into a system and bring an entire fleet down on someone in less than half a minute. There is no real counter, as the new deployable cyno jammer does not work against black ops cynos. Instead of giving people easy targets, you'll find that you'll have no targets the risk just won't be worth the reward.

I like you

Only barriers small corps/alliances have of getting a foot hold in 0.0 is the barriers they create for themselves.

Why should hi-sec be so safe?

Lol at a provi block member saying this, its hillarious how much you guys will bring for single/duo targets.




As it should be, your living in 0.0.



Only if you know the exact location of the target prior to jumping in and at what range, and assuming he isn't reading his intel channels. Granted in provi its not as bad as some places such as the drone regions. But take guri systems, you have to scout havens, sanctums, one of the hubs (forsaken?) and the belts and there is still a chance the target is in one of the worse ones. A lot of these systems have 20ish sites... the chances of fluke guessing where a target maybe and at what range before they've left is slim to say the least.



In my opinion the need for cloaky hotdropping is because such a large proportion of 0.0 is carebears that will wait for you to leave rather than provide fights. It's tedious roaming system after system and seeing the only inhabitants safe up whenever you get anywhere near, meaning the aggressor has to adapt his tactics to get kills. I guess a lot of these players are f1 grunts in big fleets who are completley incompetent at pvp on any smallish scale and without explicit instructions. (when they do actually 'pvp')

Gekkoh, excellent posts and I like the way you applied pain to those campers, nice one

When the new mobile structre was announced and I saw that it was only going to apply to normal cyno's I was kind of meh, the system wide jammer I agree with in terms of not impacting covert cyno's, but the mobile jammer not so much. The first benefit is that applying it to covert cyno's will force the cloaky camper to have two in system to be a threat, the tackle and cyno ship, as people keep telling me Eve is a group game not a solo game, so why not?

In reality though a properly setup BLOPS group can get around this, in other words a tackle ship and the cyno ship making sure its 100 km out so that the BLOPS BS can use their MJD to get close, however the spool up timer will make them more vulnerable to response fleets.

The ratter deploying them for a carrier will have to decide whether to be aligned or stay within the area of affect, but this is where the fun comes in, will they be able to pop the tackle before the fleet can get on top, notice that the alignment is something that people complain about, personally I would have another toon setup the cyno jammer while I was warping the carrier in to cover the window of opportunity while it aligns and I guess that gives a lot more security and reduces the impact of a BLOPS fleet, its a difficult one to call, but for my part the benefit of making it apply to covert cyno's is that it makes it more difficult for the cloaky AFK camper in that he would have to apply two toons to a system not one and if he only applied one then people may have the guts to go out and do something rather than cower in the station and push people to go the roaming groups of interceptors way instead.

EDIT: And the fact that the CSM went back and forth on this issue is something that gives me a warm cozy feeling towards the CSM, that I liked to hear.

Well then the cynobait ship will just carry normal and also covert cyno and pop the one which is not jammed, right?
I'm happy with covert cyno being able to "penetrate" such restrictions, it fits it's philosophy. And Astero/Stratios can bridge too, so you will see different drops compositions. There's nice roster of usable covops ships forming, all it's missing is logi :-(