EVE General Discussion

this thread is horrible, the crybabies make it out as if wardecs end the game for them, here's a tip: it doesn't.



oh god no..

If you think that dropping Star Trek quotes from Mr. Spock is going to save your credibility after expressing such extremist views ("perma-ban anybody who ever complains about Eve"), guess again.

Your paraphrased Star Trek quote ("The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one") is an expression of the philosophy of Utilitarianism. As with any philosophy, Utilitarianism is certainly not accepted as objective truth. It's just another philosophy, and is no more valid than the philosophies that counter it and the skill of the philosopher making the argument. Read this if you are interested in a counter to Utilitarianism using your Star Trek quote as context. The gist is that while ignoring the needs of the few in favor of the needs of the many may be logical, it is not always "right". Massive donations flowing in from around the world to help disaster victims is the first example of this that comes to mind. Another example is a military unit that risks its own safety to rescue one of its members who has been wounded. "Leave no man behind" flies directly in the face of Utilitarianism.



You are characterizing anyone who raises the question of whether the current wardec mechanics cause unnecessary strain on new player retention as "the crying carebears." I could just as easily employ the same kind of ad hominem to counter your assertion by characterizing those who refuse to debate this topic on its merits as selfish, self-serving, sadistic, skill-less, small-minded sociopaths who are more interested in preserving their "right" to drive away new players and pad their killboard with newbie kills than they are in what is best for Eve. I could make a good case for that assertion, but, that would just be falling into the same smug ad hominem logical fallacy as the one you employed.

Far from stating that "they aren't changing the mechanic", they HAVE changed the wardec mechanic several times, including a rather substantial increase in the cost of wardecs. Why do you think CCP increased the cost of wardecs so dramatically if it was not to cut down on the number of frivolous wardecs?

Fixed that for ya. Opinions are all well and good, but a bunch of conclusions without facts or persuasive arguments to back them up fall a bit flat. (imo)

You think CCP values your 1 sub



You are characterizing anyone who raises the question of whether the current wardec mechanics cause unnecessary strain on new player retention as "the crying carebears." I could just as easily employ the same kind of ad hominem to counter your assertion by characterizing those who refuse to debate this topic on its merits as selfish, self-serving, sadistic, skill-less, small-minded sociopaths who are more interested in preserving their "right" to drive away new players and pad their killboard with newbie kills than they are in what is best for Eve. I could make a good case for that assertion, but, that would just be falling into the same smug ad hominem logical fallacy as the one you employed.

Far from stating that "they aren't changing the mechanic", they HAVE changed the wardec mechanic several times, including a rather substantial increase in the cost of wardecs. Why do you think CCP increased the cost of wardecs so dramatically if it was not to cut down on the number of frivolous wardecs?
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If you would have read the dev blogz...the last change in war mechanics was because of a loop in the mechanics that couod lock you in a wardec for ever or get you out of one for free.

And yes, all people who whine about the war mechanic are carebears. They dont whine because of new player retention. As they are NOT related. Theybare only minor related if the new player joins any of the corps that als9 houses such whiners like you.

And you are so narrowminded in the I WANT CCP TO FIX MY CAREBEAR WORLD idea that you dont even see it.

Why people get shot down mining/hauling/mission-running during wars is beyond me.

Industrial characters should not be undocking during war. Just click your mouse 3-4 times and suddenly you're out of corp. Was that so hard?

Corps with indy pilots should have a separate chat channel set up in times of war just for this very purpose. Ones that do not deserve to be laughed at and yes, deserve to be killed while engaging in PvE.

I can't help but laugh inside (and sometimes outside) when myy current corp mates get killed in war, when my legion of indy alts have dropped corp and are mining/hauling in "safety" meanwhile.

Mindless and pointless fail...yes indeed mate...yes indeed.

I just realised not only the pointlessness of my pointless post,
but also that it doesn't even necessarily make sense.

That's english for me. xD

They expected people to use them more.

Turns out, thanks to another change they made, it is so laughably easy to avoid a wardec that I often wonder why people bother with them at all.

As usual there's an element of bullying that people tend to miss.


When someone has to declare war for gain or for PVP, and they do so at the best time and advantage, it does not appear to trouble anybody. Even if you are going to suck up all the rocks in a constellation because that's what you are good at, and it's not PVP, someone who wants the rocks might hire some mercs. It's par for the course.


But what we miss here is that when a corporation of experienced players decs a corporation of noobs for no apparent reason, it's a kind of bullying that, given the choice, no normal person will intentionally put up with.

"Intentionally" meaning, pay for a sub and keep playing.

Even with a host of options and methods at hand, along with ways out, the very things brought up in these forums when noobs are browbeaten with "this is a sandbox", "HTFU", etc, it's not about fear of loss, being risk averse, or cowardice.

It's simply about not wanting to "put up with" certain kinds of people, the sort that we go out of our way not to have to put up with IRL (or club like baby seals where there are no witnesses when a situation that looks like an accident is untenable).

So I think only certain kinds of wardecs will make people leave. Wardecs on noobs who have not stuck their necks out or made waves, by experienced players are pretty much it. It's even worse when, if these experienced players are asked, bath us in their sociopathy by pretending the notion of their original intent is non existent and persist in trying to gaslight the rest of us.

No, wardecs have never affected me personally, but then I spend all my time in nullsec/lowsec/wormholes.

If wardecs bother you, just leave hisec and never worry about war targets again.