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Hi Sec: Your Future Vision

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Jythier Smith
BGG Wolves
#161 - 2013-11-11 19:37:02 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
I for one am excited about EVE Online having other games to compete with it - then all these whiny fucktards will finally have some place else to go!


So you're planning to leave us?
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#162 - 2013-11-11 19:38:23 UTC
Jythier Smith wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
I for one am excited about EVE Online having other games to compete with it - then all these whiny fucktards will finally have some place else to go!


So you're planning to leave us?


NOU

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Jythier Smith
BGG Wolves
#163 - 2013-11-11 19:39:06 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
Jythier Smith wrote:
Well, we'll see. You don't know what's going to happen either.


I also don't know if my co-workers will be there when I get to my job in the morning, but based on past behaviour and a general understanding of the various incentives involved I can make a good guess.

That said, I'll take your response over "people in npc corp chat said goons have infiltrated CCP and are going to lock out all new players from hisec pocos so the maritanini can buy a Ferrari for his dog".


There have never been POCOs in high-sec before. There is no past behavior to judge from. But, understand the various incentives is another thing.

Are the people who get POCOs going to be griefers who just want to collect hi-sec tears by shutting us off, or do they have a profit motive to have good ferried through their POCO?

Once someone owns it I'll feel better.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#164 - 2013-11-11 19:39:34 UTC
Jythier Smith wrote:
Well, we'll see. You don't know what's going to happen either.

As a matter of fact, I actually do, since I've made our plans for them. Provided we are able to take and hold the POCOs we want, we'll set a 5% tax rate for blues and neutrals, and a 50-100% tax rate for reds.

And done.

You train your skills up and you'll pay a total of 10% in taxes, which if I'm not mistaken is actually less than you do now.

Why?

While the rage and tears that we'll have the opportunity to hold the POCOs at all is valuable to us, the income stream from collecting the taxes is even more valuable, and we'd hate to drive people away.


Of course if someone else is able to take them from us, you can't necessarily count on them being so benevolent. Cool

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#165 - 2013-11-11 19:40:54 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
How can it be that, 70 million SP and 5 years later, i am still running missions and mining?

CCP is going nothing to provid anything worth his time, his skill, his money, and suit to his prefered gameplay.

Wormholes are too dangerous and belong only to a special chaste of players.


Just going to leave this here and let others draw the conclusion that the problem with your game isn't CCP, it's you.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#166 - 2013-11-11 19:41:45 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
I for one am excited about EVE Online having other games to compete with it - then all these whiny fucktards will finally have some place else to go!


EVE has always in one way or another had games to compete with it.

There are games right now that offer the things these"tards" say they want, but they won't go play them, they'd rather sit and be miserable in EVE on the off chance CCP "comes to it's senses" and destroys the winning formula that has allowed it to survive for 10 years....

Nope, Tards gonna Tard, that means that they will try SC after loudly announcing on this forum that they are leaving, find that it doesn't have the same things that EVE has (because the SC DEVs are TELLING people upfront what the game will be like, which is falling on deaf ears), and in a stunning reversal, return to playing EVE Online...but their return will be a whole order of magnitude quieter than their departure.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#167 - 2013-11-11 19:44:22 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Jythier Smith wrote:
Well, we'll see. You don't know what's going to happen either.

As a matter of fact, I actually do, since I've made our plans for them. Provided we are able to take and hold the POCOs we want, we'll set a 5% tax rate for blues and neutrals, and a 50-100% tax rate for reds.

And done.

You train your skills up and you'll pay a total of 10% in taxes, which if I'm not mistaken is actually less than you do now.

Why?

While the rage and tears that we'll have the opportunity to hold the POCOs at all is valuable to us, the income stream from collecting the taxes is even more valuable, and we'd hate to drive people away.


Of course if someone else is able to take them from us, you can't necessarily count on them being so benevolent. Cool


Queuing the anti-Goon tinfoil hat crew! This is your chance to explain to us how Goons are doing this to destroy EVE through the ingenious plan of lower taxes for carebears!!!!!

Goons are teh evil.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#168 - 2013-11-11 19:45:34 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
I for one am excited about EVE Online having other games to compete with it - then all these whiny fucktards will finally have some place else to go!

EVE has always in one way or another had games to compete with it.

There are games right now that offer the things these"tards" say they want, but they won't go play them, they'd rather sit and be miserable in EVE on the off chance CCP "comes to it's senses" and destroys the winning formula that has allowed it to survive for 10 years....

Nope, Tards gonna Tard, that means that they will try SC after loudly announcing on this forum that they are leaving, find that it doesn't have the same things that EVE has (because the SC DEVs are TELLING people upfront what the game will be like, which is falling on deaf ears), and in a stunning reversal, return to playing EVE Online...but their return will be a whole order of magnitude quieter than their departure.

Back into the belts of highsec?
:getin:

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Jythier Smith
BGG Wolves
#169 - 2013-11-11 19:45:58 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Jythier Smith wrote:
I've only been around less than a month, am I a bittervet already? Isn't it important to know what is going on in the game? Did you know that newbie doesn't equal uninformed?


This is the funniest post today when the subject is about you misunderstanding the POCO issue lol.

Welcome to yet another subject where "null sec people" end up schooling :high sec people" on high sec mechanics. like I've said before, High Sec doesn't teach players anything, not like low, null and wormhole space does.


So I should fly out to losec and get pod-killed by a pirate because I won't pay million ISK bounties instead... because I don't have the skills to fight yet, don't know how to fit a ship yet, and even if I did, wouldn't have the money or skills to fit a ship properly for PVP?

I'm just trying to figure out what I'm supposed to do here.

I can't survive in a WH because sleepers would kill me.

I can go to null sec if I become a member of an alliance but I can't do anything alone yet so I don't really have a business plan yet, and any plan I did have would have better skilled pilots doing it better than me and I'd also have to travel a longer way to get to a trade hub.

Also they're just as likely to think I'm a spy as new.

Or maybe I should stick to what I'm good at, non-combative mining, industrial production, moving goods around, and other hi-sec pursuits like PI.

And I guess I just won't 'learn' so much about what null people want because until now, they've been in null.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#170 - 2013-11-11 19:46:19 UTC
Jythier Smith wrote:

There have never been POCOs in high-sec before. There is no past behavior to judge from. But, understand the various incentives is another thing.

Are the people who get POCOs going to be griefers who just want to collect hi-sec tears by shutting us off, or do they have a profit motive to have good ferried through their POCO?

Once someone owns it I'll feel better.

There may not have been POCOs in highsec before, but they've been in every other area of space for quite a while. We can anticipate what difference they're going to make by looking at what happened when they were introduced to those other areas.

The sheer number of available planets in highsec will make it nigh on impossible for any one group to control and hold on to more than a figurative handful of them, and most of those will be close to the main trade hubs and routes. I would say that as long as you're more than 5 or 6 jumps away from the hubs and the chokepoints, it'll be business as usual with 99% of the customs offices still being in NPC hands.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Jythier Smith
BGG Wolves
#171 - 2013-11-11 19:48:51 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Jythier Smith wrote:
Well, we'll see. You don't know what's going to happen either.

As a matter of fact, I actually do, since I've made our plans for them. Provided we are able to take and hold the POCOs we want, we'll set a 5% tax rate for blues and neutrals, and a 50-100% tax rate for reds.

And done.

You train your skills up and you'll pay a total of 10% in taxes, which if I'm not mistaken is actually less than you do now.

Why?

While the rage and tears that we'll have the opportunity to hold the POCOs at all is valuable to us, the income stream from collecting the taxes is even more valuable, and we'd hate to drive people away.


Of course if someone else is able to take them from us, you can't necessarily count on them being so benevolent. Cool


I'm planning to take over my own planets' COs. I won't be able to hold them though. And I'm not sure if my corpmates are into it. And even if they are, I'm not sure I have the DPS to do it. But it's floating around in my mind.
Jythier Smith
BGG Wolves
#172 - 2013-11-11 19:50:10 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Jythier Smith wrote:

There have never been POCOs in high-sec before. There is no past behavior to judge from. But, understand the various incentives is another thing.

Are the people who get POCOs going to be griefers who just want to collect hi-sec tears by shutting us off, or do they have a profit motive to have good ferried through their POCO?

Once someone owns it I'll feel better.

There may not have been POCOs in highsec before, but they've been in every other area of space for quite a while. We can anticipate what difference they're going to make by looking at what happened when they were introduced to those other areas.

The sheer number of available planets in highsec will make it nigh on impossible for any one group to control and hold on to more than a figurative handful of them, and most of those will be close to the main trade hubs and routes. I would say that as long as you're more than 5 or 6 jumps away from the hubs and the chokepoints, it'll be business as usual with 99% of the customs offices still being in NPC hands.


Who wants to be that far away from a trade hub? Back when I started, just before the Rubicon announcement of these things, at least, before I saw it, I thought, hey, I should be close to a trade hub... that will only help me. What could go wrong?
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#173 - 2013-11-11 19:58:06 UTC
Jythier Smith wrote:

So I should fly out to losec and get pod-killed by a pirate because I won't pay million ISK bounties instead... because I don't have the skills to fight yet, don't know how to fit a ship yet, and even if I did, wouldn't have the money or skills to fit a ship properly for PVP?


You say you are 2 months old. their are guides and player organizations like EVe Uni all over the place to help you.. You should be able to fit a rifter or something.

But the above is moot, who said anything about forcing you to go pvp?

Quote:

I'm just trying to figure out what I'm supposed to do here.

I can't survive in a WH because sleepers would kill me.


it doesn't take long to train for a Drake or similar battecruiser is you want to do low level wormholes.

Quote:

I can go to null sec if I become a member of an alliance but I can't do anything alone yet so I don't really have a business plan yet, and any plan I did have would have better skilled pilots doing it better than me and I'd also have to travel a longer way to get to a trade hub.


There are NPC stations in NPC null....
Quote:

Also they're just as likely to think I'm a spy as new.

Or maybe I should stick to what I'm good at, non-combative mining, industrial production, moving goods around, and other hi-sec pursuits like PI.

And I guess I just won't 'learn' so much about what null people want because until now, they've been in null.


No, you aren't learning anything at all about the games working beyond the limited things you are doing. That's the exact point.

We see it all the time, players who have played for 2 years or more in high sec and have worked up the courage to try null. So they come out and don't have basic flying or fitting or tactical/survival skills.

You see, in low sec, null and wormholes, the game gives you feed back of the most negative kind: screw up and die/lose money. That usually only happens in high sec to inexperienced players (which is why, according to a 2011 dev blog about ships killed in EVE, most of the PVE deaths in high sec are frigate sized ships, very few people die in high sec PVE once they can fly a battleship).

It is extremely funny watching a fresh out of high sec miner who joined some renter corp try to mine in null the 1st time NPC battleships appear in a belt and kills them. Seems they honestly don't know you have to fit a tank and maybe have DPS support to mine in null lol.

No one is saying you should do anything other than what you want, just commenting on the standard "misunderstandings" we see on this forum from uniformed "high sec only" players.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#174 - 2013-11-11 20:00:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Xuixien
Jythier Smith wrote:
I don't have the skills to fight yet,
don't know how to fit a ship yet,
even if I did, wouldn't have the money
or skills


Couple of things:
1) What's the magical number of SP to be able to fight? Can you tell me?
2) What's the magical number of ISK to be able to fight? Can you tell me?
3) If you played EVE Online instead of EVE Singleplayer, you could ask other players how to fit your ships.

Jythier Smith wrote:
Or maybe I should stick to what I'm good at, non-combative mining, industrial production, moving goods around, and other hi-sec pursuits like PI.


Everyone everywhere should just stick to the easy things that they're good at instead of stepping out of the comfort zones and getting better at other, different things. Confirming that the solution to the problem of being bored with what you do is to just keep doing it!

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Jythier Smith
BGG Wolves
#175 - 2013-11-11 20:02:54 UTC
I'm cautious, see.

At first I refused to mine below .9 because there would be rats there.

Now I know my drones can handle .7 rats.

Who knows where I'll be in a week?

Exciting, you know?
Dyvim Slorm
Coven of the Morrigan
#176 - 2013-11-11 20:03:58 UTC
Niec Mogul wrote:

'Cause we all know that's how it would go down. I mean really, who wouldn't bite that hook? You'll be where? You'll be flying ****-for-tanks mining ships? You're gonna pay me to show up? Well yeah, I think I'll be right on over!

Now surely some apologist will be along in a moment crowing "ruined reputations" and how "no one would hire such a merc corp after a few kills." Sure buddy. You go ahead and name a few corps that are still around with such sullied names. Painted so red that they just can't get hired anymore. I'm positive that there's just scads of them lurking in the shadows, hiding in the corners from their prior deeds...

Also, don't ask me how they got tires on a Tornado. Or how they peeled out in space. I'm sure it'll be in a future expansion.


There may well be cases of that but they'll also be new enterprises to breathe some life back into the merc game and who would be trustworthy if they want to make a profit.

In any case the indy corp could develop it's own pvp wing to protect it.

I accept that there would be problems removing Concord but I'm not so sure that it would be any worse for miners as they are prey to suicide ganks already so what's changed? This at least would allow them to be proactive in their own defence.

It would make logistics harder as escorts would be needed for transporting stuff, so yes it would need to be worked out carefully and some game rebalancing would be needed
Jythier Smith
BGG Wolves
#177 - 2013-11-11 20:07:13 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Jythier Smith wrote:
I don't have the skills to fight yet,
don't know how to fit a ship yet,
even if I did, wouldn't have the money
or skills


Couple of things:
1) What's the magical number of SP to be able to fight? Can you tell me?
2) What's the magical number of ISK to be able to fight? Can you tell me?
3) If you played EVE Online instead of EVE Singleplayer, you could ask other players how to fit your ships.

Jythier Smith wrote:
Or maybe I should stick to what I'm good at, non-combative mining, industrial production, moving goods around, and other hi-sec pursuits like PI.


Everyone everywhere should just stick to the easy things that they're good at instead of stepping out of the comfort zones and getting better at other, different things. Confirming that the solution to the problem of being bored with what you do is to just keep doing it!


Oh, you think I'm bored with those things? Tragic to have such a misunderstanding of what was being said.

I'm assuming that everyone wants me to leave hisec and go do something else for my own good, and commenting on why I shouldn't do that.

Basically, the rats will kill me. And if they don't, the players will.

I prefer economic competition to combat. Combat sort of... bores me. The hi-sec stuff is very enjoyable.

Then I read a post or two about how excited someone else is to fight and loot and win and all that and I get itchy to get out there and shoot something.

So I know I'll try it someday, and hopefully it'll be a nice break from brainburning economics.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#178 - 2013-11-11 20:07:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
By the way, doing PI in lowsec is truly trivial and requires all of 5 seconds of exposure at the pick-up. The chances of being killed while doing that are pretty much nil.

Lower taxes, higher output, less crowding. There are quite literally no downsides to it… well, maybe the three weeks to get a Blockade Runner, but given the sheer usefulness of that class, I can't honestly call it a downside.
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#179 - 2013-11-11 20:11:11 UTC
I absolutely sympathize with the plight of the new player, and you still sound fresh enough that you are asking questions instead of making statements, so i think people should cut you a little more slack here.

That said, there has been some excellent advice so far, albeit a bit snarky, and I can only reinforce the general message that they're giving. The way to get better is to get out there and learn. Actual player knowledge and skill trumps SP, ISK, and often even the power of numbers. It is the one resource that cannot be bought, traded, stolen, or anything else except learned through experience and a good attitude.

My answer to everyone and anyone who ever ask 'what should I do?" in eve, regardless of age or experience, is always "get out there and meet people. If they suck or you get bored or you progress beyond them, then get out there and meet other people." That's essentially the game, and CCP does a ****-poor job of communicating and reinforcing that fact, but it's the truth.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#180 - 2013-11-11 20:13:55 UTC
Quote:
Jythier Smith wrote:


Everyone everywhere should just stick to the easy things that they're good at instead of stepping out of the comfort zones and getting better at other, different things. Confirming that the solution to the problem of being bored with what you do is to just keep doing it!


Oh, you think I'm bored with those things? Tragic to have such a misunderstanding of what was being said.

I'm assuming that everyone wants me to leave hisec and go do something else for my own good, and commenting on why I shouldn't do that.

Basically, the rats will kill me. And if they don't, the players will.

I prefer economic competition to combat. Combat sort of... bores me. The hi-sec stuff is very enjoyable.

Then I read a post or two about how excited someone else is to fight and loot and win and all that and I get itchy to get out there and shoot something.

So I know I'll try it someday, and hopefully it'll be a nice break from brainburning economics.
'

Your displaying the limited view that hisec people tend to have. No one is telling you specifically to do anything. No one cares what you do. I'm not a PVPr myself.

But we are commenting on the fact that you are limiting yourself. Many many MANY high sec people display that same kind of self-limiting behavior, even when it comes to other high sec activities (no reason to leave high sec if you don't want to). I know high sec players who do nothing but run missions year after year despite the fact that they themselves will say it bores them. It's madness to me.