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Hi Sec: Your Future Vision

First post
Author
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#101 - 2013-11-10 17:56:20 UTC
mynnna wrote:
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a highseccer's face - forever.


That plan does have a glitch, it requires a hiseccer. Bear

Now seriously.

Let's say that i am wrong and i am a freak in a fringe population playing the absolutely wrong game because of a regretable monopoly situation. Darn. What a waste of time and money and effort this has been. But as other games are coming, I can just shift horses and still call it a day.

Let's say that I am right and i am a freak in a too large to be pissed population about to be pissed beyond words by delusional developers. The game takes a fatal blow an crumbles into "cult game" size. Darn. What a waste of time and money and effort this has been. But as other games are coming, I can just shift horses and still call it a day.

Let's say that I am right and i am a freak in a too large to be pissed population about to become horribly evident to formerly delusional developers, who undertake an effort to please the guys who pay the bills. The game blooms as more options draw in more players and so I can just stay with EVE and call it a day.

I don't know whether:

a), has CCP Seagull implemented the human-counting methods they were talking with CSM 7?
b), if those methods already exist, do they have useful data?
c), if the data exist and are useful, will they be shared publicly?
d), is the Hallelujah Plan a fruit of guiding game development according to those data?

What i know for sure is that Rubicon is the tenth expansion in a row that provides me no reason to keep playing the game, and i am the only player I know since 5 years ago. Everyone else I know either are younger characters or have quit the game along the road.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#102 - 2013-11-10 18:10:27 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Dyvim Slorm wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Your reasonment was VERY sound in the early 2000.

Since then, more than a decade has passed and the MMOs playerbase composition has changed.
These days the majority are NOT going to have the time to invest in a game and find protection mercs and whatever... just to earn the right to log in and have a greater than 10% chance to survive.


I disagree because in effect that is already the current situation, carebears are currently cannon fodder for highsec gankers, all removing Concord does is allow them to be proactive in protecting themselves


I have been in FW for a long time. It's like living a peek of what EvE would become.

I could stay alive and keep playing with any degree of success ONLY because I had a strong, organized corp backing me up.

Forcing the majority who don't have this infrastructure behind them to become farmables is not going to make the game any more popular than is now.


I realize you very likely don't have the time nor inclination, but please consider running for the next CSM.


Thank you for the vote of confidence, but indeed I lack the time and I don't accept compromise.

If CSM will truly become a relevant entity with factual powers then I could think about it.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#103 - 2013-11-10 18:26:35 UTC
mynnna wrote:
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a highseccer's face - forever.

Lol, good luck with that.
Nyrak
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2013-11-10 23:15:30 UTC
If the game becomes too much like work to have fun, then I'll just leave - no loyalty to a "video game".

Just my opinion.
Shadow Love
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#105 - 2013-11-10 23:36:36 UTC
Removing CONCORD would be a mistake, a major one. EVE already stomps on the throat of new players so ruthlessly a lot of them aren't even given a chance to learn to enjoy the game before this happens.

Imagine if, for instance, you are playing generic fantasy mmo featuring wizards, warriors, and thieves. Death has no consequence here except for running back to your body with the world cast in spooky white shadows. Except, you never really get to find out that death has no consequence because level 100 players are in your newb area, slaughtering you. Over, and over, and over. You haven't even made it to the first NPC to get a quest, all you can do is die. Sure, death has no real meaning... but you haven't even been given a chance to figure that out. All you know is that this sucks, you can't do anything, and it feels like you are wasting your time. You logoff forever.

That is the type of experience I feel some people would have starting this game if CONCORD were removed. Sure, you can say "Oh, if they bail because they got ganked they aren't the type of player we want anyway" and that may well be true. You have to remember though, people need to be given a chance to understand a game before they can, well, understand it. If you are new, and feel like you worked really hard for something only to have it taken away, it can suck. Especially if no one is there to slap you on the back and say "Hey man, that does happen. Tell you what, I'll help you get back into another ship and we can go (insert different activity here)".

Sure highsec has its problems, but it is a staging area for the rest of the game. Without that buffer, a lot of things will change for the worse. Sure, some very vocal complainers wail about highsec ganking, but honestly I read these forums pretty much every day at work and I see just as much vocal wailing about how highsec is too safe.

P.S. No "pvp" fleet is ever going to sit around for 6 hours in an asteroid belt to protect miners in the absence of CONCORD. If you were ever wondering what could be more boring than mining, I think we just figured it out.
Richard Ramlrez
Doomheim
#106 - 2013-11-10 23:58:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Ramlrez
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
People's hatred of high will result in the death of the game they love.

Seriously, why so mad of other people's playstyle.

Its just like a person saying they want to bring concord to null. It's that ridiculous.

If you want people to come to lnull and low, why don't you take the time to invite them into your corp and actually take them out ot low and null. Being hot and bothered because you can't shoot them in high-sec just makes you look petty.


I would counter with the concept that, highsec was never intended to be as safe as it is right now, and after constant knee jerk safety buffs at the behest of the exceptionally whiny highsec carebear playerbase it has grown into something out of control, and needs to be pruned down back into balance with the rest of space.

So, I don't see as being mad at someone else's playstyle on the part of everyone who doesn't cling to highsec. I see it as being mad that highsec won't stop asking for buffs to safety, over and over and over again, despite the fact that they are safer now than they have ever been, or have ever deserved to be.

So it's time to take a little of that back, so the whiny bastards have to something to actually complain about.



You must be pretty stupid to not realize that hi-sec is FAR more dangerous today then null sec where coaltions roam freely for 10x more rewards.

CCP wants to give more PVP to PVPers... they forget that carebears would rather quit the game silently and find a new game than being forced to fight against their will.

And thats what will happen. I'm cool with it. I can adapt and move myself to nullsec but i know that the majority will simply quit if pressed too hard against the wall.
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2013-11-11 00:33:06 UTC
My vision does not include the closure of hisec nor of low or null.

Balance

So many arguments and so many trolls in this thread.

If hisec is dying and people are leaving it can the last one out turn off the lights?

But if it is the place to make isk to support pvp habits then no THINKING null player is going to want to see it shut down anytime soon. Suppose manufacturing was so poor in null that they could not even make all their own ammo for their little scraps that they have from time to time.

If hisec is a static part of New Eden then why would it need fixing?

If it is a growing part of New Eden then the growth factors should be identified, quantified, used elsewhere.

I cannot say what is, NDA and all, in regards to where people are. But I play in hisec and wander into other places when the mood takes me. I tried Null and an alliance and the idea of following orders to benefit someone else just didn't sit well. It is not I am right and they are wrong or vice versa, just my play did not fit theirs.

Eve is huge and has many facets. Each side is polished by the people who prefer that shiny place they have found. Few are willing to admire another side and are positive they are in the best place. And they are, for them.

I don't see hi closing anytime soon . . . .

Out of curiosity. why is it always hi, lo, null and nobody talks about the other space? remember wormholes?

m


Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#108 - 2013-11-11 00:33:10 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
By leading the lemmings/sheep to slaughter, CCP has shown that it cares not for highseccers anymore.

By giving highsec gankers new mobile depots to refit in, CCP shows that it cares not for highseccers 'safety' anymore.

By letting anyone place POCOs in highsec, CCP shows that it cares not for highseccer easy money anymore.


Clearly this shows that CCP is getting ready to Nerf highsec.

Finally.



You forgot its als visa versa......... Now null sec is more safer then before..... Clearly you miss that.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#109 - 2013-11-11 01:15:35 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:

Out of curiosity. why is it always hi, lo, null and nobody talks about the other space? remember wormholes?

m




It's because Bob scares people.

And wormholes are very different from Kspace.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#110 - 2013-11-11 03:57:23 UTC
Richard Ramlrez wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
People's hatred of high will result in the death of the game they love.

Seriously, why so mad of other people's playstyle.

Its just like a person saying they want to bring concord to null. It's that ridiculous.

If you want people to come to lnull and low, why don't you take the time to invite them into your corp and actually take them out ot low and null. Being hot and bothered because you can't shoot them in high-sec just makes you look petty.


I would counter with the concept that, highsec was never intended to be as safe as it is right now, and after constant knee jerk safety buffs at the behest of the exceptionally whiny highsec carebear playerbase it has grown into something out of control, and needs to be pruned down back into balance with the rest of space.

So, I don't see as being mad at someone else's playstyle on the part of everyone who doesn't cling to highsec. I see it as being mad that highsec won't stop asking for buffs to safety, over and over and over again, despite the fact that they are safer now than they have ever been, or have ever deserved to be.

So it's time to take a little of that back, so the whiny bastards have to something to actually complain about.



You must be pretty stupid to not realize that hi-sec is FAR more dangerous today then null sec where coaltions roam freely for 10x more rewards.

CCP wants to give more PVP to PVPers... they forget that carebears would rather quit the game silently and find a new game than being forced to fight against their will.

And thats what will happen. I'm cool with it. I can adapt and move myself to nullsec but i know that the majority will simply quit if pressed too hard against the wall.


And again I see the "but the carebears will quit!" defense. Do you all have like, a list of this bullshit that you look at whenever this topic comes up?

Same old story, same old song and dance.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#111 - 2013-11-11 07:57:01 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Richard Ramlrez wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
People's hatred of high will result in the death of the game they love.

Seriously, why so mad of other people's playstyle.

Its just like a person saying they want to bring concord to null. It's that ridiculous.

If you want people to come to lnull and low, why don't you take the time to invite them into your corp and actually take them out ot low and null. Being hot and bothered because you can't shoot them in high-sec just makes you look petty.


I would counter with the concept that, highsec was never intended to be as safe as it is right now, and after constant knee jerk safety buffs at the behest of the exceptionally whiny highsec carebear playerbase it has grown into something out of control, and needs to be pruned down back into balance with the rest of space.

So, I don't see as being mad at someone else's playstyle on the part of everyone who doesn't cling to highsec. I see it as being mad that highsec won't stop asking for buffs to safety, over and over and over again, despite the fact that they are safer now than they have ever been, or have ever deserved to be.

So it's time to take a little of that back, so the whiny bastards have to something to actually complain about.



You must be pretty stupid to not realize that hi-sec is FAR more dangerous today then null sec where coaltions roam freely for 10x more rewards.

CCP wants to give more PVP to PVPers... they forget that carebears would rather quit the game silently and find a new game than being forced to fight against their will.

And thats what will happen. I'm cool with it. I can adapt and move myself to nullsec but i know that the majority will simply quit if pressed too hard against the wall.


And again I see the "but the carebears will quit!" defense. Do you all have like, a list of this bullshit that you look at whenever this topic comes up?

Same old story, same old song and dance.

Are you gonna watch it?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Bittersweet Badasaz
Q.Q.
#112 - 2013-11-11 09:01:07 UTC
mynnna wrote:
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a highseccer's face - forever.


Well there you go CCP! In these tough times where Dust is crumbling and your online numbers have stayed stagnant since Goons rose to power, why not listen to Mynnna and give your new subscribers that special boot in the face? Over and Over. Forever.

Surely that will help, preferably crushing the skulls of those hoping to join the game, especially if they resist joining Goonswarm and helping to pay Mitten's real life bills. I mean what else do they have to do with their spare time really?

Congratulations CCP on already starting down that visionary path with the live event leading the lambs to the slaughter. Conversion to low and null sec shot way, way up right? Oh oops wrong, new trial accounts from steam got enraged and started talking about leaving and telling their friends this game is designed by the totally unimaginably incompetent. Imagine them feeling humiliated instead of grateful for a two hour deathmarch, the nerve not to like that boot to the head over and over, and you know, just leave instead.

Picture your next corporate pitch to investors "we have limited our new player base to those that like to be kicked in the head over and over, in other words, the brain damaged"
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#113 - 2013-11-11 09:08:09 UTC
Bittersweet Badasaz wrote:
mynnna wrote:
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a highseccer's face - forever.


Well there you go CCP! In these tough times where Dust is crumbling and your online numbers have stayed stagnant since Goons rose to power, why not listen to Mynnna and give your new subscribers that special boot in the face? Over and Over. Forever.

Surely that will help, preferably crushing the skulls of those hoping to join the game, especially if they resist joining Goonswarm and helping to pay Mitten's real life bills. I mean what else do they have to do with their spare time really?

Congratulations CCP on already starting down that visionary path with the live event leading the lambs to the slaughter. Conversion to low and null sec shot way, way up right? Oh oops wrong, new trial accounts from steam got enraged and started talking about leaving and telling their friends this game is designed by the totally unimaginably incompetent. Imagine them feeling humiliated instead of grateful for a two hour deathmarch, the nerve not to like that boot to the head over and over, and you know, just leave instead.

Picture your next corporate pitch to investors "we have limited our new player base to those that like to be kicked in the head over and over, in other words, the brain damaged"


If you feel this way, then pardon my curiousity, but why do you still play this game?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#114 - 2013-11-11 09:14:19 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Bittersweet Badasaz wrote:
mynnna wrote:
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a highseccer's face - forever.


Well there you go CCP! In these tough times where Dust is crumbling and your online numbers have stayed stagnant since Goons rose to power, why not listen to Mynnna and give your new subscribers that special boot in the face? Over and Over. Forever.

Surely that will help, preferably crushing the skulls of those hoping to join the game, especially if they resist joining Goonswarm and helping to pay Mitten's real life bills. I mean what else do they have to do with their spare time really?

Congratulations CCP on already starting down that visionary path with the live event leading the lambs to the slaughter. Conversion to low and null sec shot way, way up right? Oh oops wrong, new trial accounts from steam got enraged and started talking about leaving and telling their friends this game is designed by the totally unimaginably incompetent. Imagine them feeling humiliated instead of grateful for a two hour deathmarch, the nerve not to like that boot to the head over and over, and you know, just leave instead.

Picture your next corporate pitch to investors "we have limited our new player base to those that like to be kicked in the head over and over, in other words, the brain damaged"


If you feel this way, then pardon my curiousity, but why do you still play this game?

"resist joining Goonswarm" you say

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#115 - 2013-11-11 09:49:06 UTC
Rekkr Nordgard wrote:
Posting in an "all of Eve should be nullsec" thread.



On the contrary... we shoul dh ave an expansion that surpise, annoucned only 2 hours before deployment.. Concord moves to 0.0 to put the player empires into the line.. but leaves hiugh sec compeltely uindefended!!! :P

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#116 - 2013-11-11 09:51:46 UTC
Bittersweet Badasaz wrote:
mynnna wrote:
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a highseccer's face - forever.


Well there you go CCP! In these tough times where Dust is crumbling and your online numbers have stayed stagnant since Goons rose to power, why not listen to Mynnna and give your new subscribers that special boot in the face? Over and Over. Forever.

Surely that will help, preferably crushing the skulls of those hoping to join the game, especially if they resist joining Goonswarm and helping to pay Mitten's real life bills. I mean what else do they have to do with their spare time really?

Congratulations CCP on already starting down that visionary path with the live event leading the lambs to the slaughter. Conversion to low and null sec shot way, way up right? Oh oops wrong, new trial accounts from steam got enraged and started talking about leaving and telling their friends this game is designed by the totally unimaginably incompetent. Imagine them feeling humiliated instead of grateful for a two hour deathmarch, the nerve not to like that boot to the head over and over, and you know, just leave instead.

Picture your next corporate pitch to investors "we have limited our new player base to those that like to be kicked in the head over and over, in other words, the brain damaged"



Anyone that got mad just be cause they lost a ship on an event that woudl OBVIOUSLY wqith 100% chance result in loss of ships, is

A) an idiot

B)Has a skin as hard as pudin



And shoudl not be in this game.



THe event was NTO mandatory and was OBVIOUSLY goign to result in players dead. Or how in hell anyoen imagined that a blob of careebars in 0.0 woudl end?

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#117 - 2013-11-11 11:30:16 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Anyone that got mad just be cause they lost a ship on an event that woudl OBVIOUSLY wqith 100% chance result in loss of ships, is

A) an idiot

B)Has a skin as hard as pudin


And shoudl not be in this game.

THe event was NTO mandatory and was OBVIOUSLY goign to result in players dead. Or how in hell anyoen imagined that a blob of careebars in 0.0 woudl end?

Here's a thought for consideration - what if some of those players are mad not so much they lost their pods and ships, but CCP's infrastructure could not accommodate them during game play? What appearance does this portray about null sec gaming: tidi traveling, slow transfer through star gates, and non-existent grid loading versus those already on grid and thus could not have a "fair fight"? Yes, Eve is this "cold, harsh, blah blah blah", but if this is the initial appearance to gaming outside a comfort zone and many of the player base rag on these people, then do you honestly expect people to claim, "That was FUN!"

Just a different angle.
Mythrandier
Solace Corp
#118 - 2013-11-11 11:32:33 UTC
Bittersweet Badasaz wrote:
mynnna wrote:
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a highseccer's face - forever.


Well there you go CCP! In these tough times where Dust is crumbling and your online numbers have stayed stagnant since Goons rose to power, why not listen to Mynnna and give your new subscribers that special boot in the face? Over and Over. Forever.

Surely that will help, preferably crushing the skulls of those hoping to join the game, especially if they resist joining Goonswarm and helping to pay Mitten's real life bills. I mean what else do they have to do with their spare time really?

Congratulations CCP on already starting down that visionary path with the live event leading the lambs to the slaughter. Conversion to low and null sec shot way, way up right? Oh oops wrong, new trial accounts from steam got enraged and started talking about leaving and telling their friends this game is designed by the totally unimaginably incompetent. Imagine them feeling humiliated instead of grateful for a two hour deathmarch, the nerve not to like that boot to the head over and over, and you know, just leave instead.

Picture your next corporate pitch to investors "we have limited our new player base to those that like to be kicked in the head over and over, in other words, the brain damaged"


Holy ****. The butthurt, its so strong its almost alive. Man thats beautiful.

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -  D. Adams.

Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#119 - 2013-11-11 13:57:38 UTC
Won't someone think of the children?!

There is a massive gulf between "new players" and "perpetually frightened massively online single players". Furthermore, the latter is a cancer on the game who either assimilate or drive out the former.

Hisec needs to be completely revamped until it is no longer like a gulag where the perpetually frightened convinced the new inmates that it's impossible to escape (even though it's actually as easy as opening the gate and walking out the door). That is unequivocally the largest hurdle Eve has so far faced and continues to face in its ten year history. I don't think taking the average gamer who is sick of wow and looking for something fresh and then turning them into an avowed Eve player is easy, but that's CCP's main task as a company, and they should be devoting the vast amount of their resources to it until they get it right.

My greatest hope for star citizen is that all the people who hate eve for what it is, yet play it anyway (and complain) for some unfathomable reason, leave, and then hisec really will be a place for actual new players to grow and transition out of.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#120 - 2013-11-11 14:19:37 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
Won't someone think of the children?!

There is a massive gulf between "new players" and "perpetually frightened massively online single players". Furthermore, the latter is a cancer on the game who either assimilate or drive out the former.

Hisec needs to be completely revamped until it is no longer like a gulag where the perpetually frightened convinced the new inmates that it's impossible to escape (even though it's actually as easy as opening the gate and walking out the door). That is unequivocally the largest hurdle Eve has so far faced and continues to face in its ten year history. I don't think taking the average gamer who is sick of wow and looking for something fresh and then turning them into an avowed Eve player is easy, but that's CCP's main task as a company, and they should be devoting the vast amount of their resources to it until they get it right.


+1000

I remember my 1st year of EVE being in a mission running corp (ran by a friend of mine who was also a WoW player, I played WoW for 4 months with him even though I hated it). Listening to those guys in corp, it seemed like low/null sec was insta death or something. A few people were always on about how "ill go to null sec when I have enough isk" but they never did. If it weren't for faction warfare coming out I might have never left high sec at all.

I don't think anyone should be "forced" to do anything, but a lot of high sec players are missing out on a lot of fun because of how much High Sec (as currently constituted) does zero to prepare players for life in "real" EVE (low, null and WH space ie the majority of systems in EVE).

High Sec is what Real Life would look like if no one ever graduated from Kindergarten.

Quote:

My greatest hope for star citizen is that all the people who hate eve for what it is, yet play it anyway (and complain) for some unfathomable reason, leave, and then hisec really will be a place for actual new players to grow and transition out of.


You're hopes are in vain brother. The type of people you are talking about won't ever leave. They NEED the situation high sec provides ie a "safe fortress" on the edge of danger. If all they wanted was to be left alone, no non-consensual pvp, and walking around they'd have left for Star Trek Online or several other games.

It's why pure "solo" players won't leave for a single player game. They don't want to play with others, but for some crazy reason they need those others around (which is why there is no big exodus to X- Rebirth.). They hate sand and claim they love snow but spend every day at the beach instead of driving an hour to the mountains. There's no real figuring them out.