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How would gameplay change, if newtonian physics would be used?

Author
Good Apollo BS4
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-11-11 01:19:38 UTC
Rarrrrr nerd rage!! :) ^^ you are missing the point!

Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-11-11 01:32:11 UTC
Good Apollo BS4 wrote:
Rarrrrr nerd rage!! :) ^^ you are missing the point!




Lol and this is your answer you are asking for nerd answers.
And what is the point. You got Science fiction fantasy and you want to change it to a diffrend Science fiction fantasy its still the same fantasy Science fiction" There are both wrong.
Good Apollo BS4
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-11-11 03:53:23 UTC
Johan Civire wrote:
Good Apollo BS4 wrote:
Rarrrrr nerd rage!! :) ^^ you are missing the point!




Lol and this is your answer you are asking for nerd answers.
And what is the point. You got Science fiction fantasy and you want to change it to a diffrend Science fiction fantasy its still the same fantasy Science fiction" There are both wrong.


I think OP clearly stated was wondering what if, not expressing desire to actually change anything in the game- I certainly would not want a realistic simulation lol! Set course for Mars!! Er Jita 4-4 I mean... Now wait for 3 years... :)

No thanks spend more than enOugh time sitting around doing nothing as things stand :)
Thern alpha
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2013-11-11 03:54:29 UTC
short answer: yes
long answer: yeeeeeessssss
Kharamete
Royal Assent
#25 - 2013-11-11 05:20:25 UTC
Since Einsteinean physics has replaced Newtonian a hundred years ago...

1) Align a ship and warp at something at near relativistic speed, and the explosion would be quite something. A single frigate would easily destroy a titan, if not several.

2) Since eve uses warp drives, which at least has a theoretical basis in the Alcubierre drive, we should be able to do away with star gates, but we'd have to introduce time differential. Players outside the warp bubble should gain more sp than the person in the bubble. Quite a bit more, actually. By the time you reach the next system the noob you started Eve with is a jaded bitter vet with 100 million sp while you still have under a million.

3) Acceleration to near c would require all the energy stored in every particle in New Eden. That should take of the tears expended by the bitter vet syndrome described in 2.

4) e=mc2 is fun.

CCP FoxFour: "... the what button... oh god I didn't even know that existed. BRB."

My little youtube videos can be found here

Zuai
Doomheim
#26 - 2013-11-11 05:39:59 UTC
This game would be very difficult to play drunk
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-11-11 06:06:40 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Tippia wrote:
It would be all-missiles, all the time, since they'd be the only ones who could ever hit anything. Maybe with the odd drone thrown in for good measure…


A good argument could be made for railguns as a means of propulsion.


Or in the A Team movie, flying a tank by turret fire. Flying a tank
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-11-11 06:13:12 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
The problem with real physics is that they are terrible from a gameplay perspective.

- No top speed means that the only limiting factor on ships is mass/inertia... which makes maneuvering a VERY tedious and boring affair for large ships in addition to chaotic and frustrating for smaller ships (I can definitely see overshooting or flying right past the target being a problem).

- Stasis Webifiers would be useless (as they reduce max speeds) unless they are based on some other principle. Making them affect mass might do the trick... but that would make them terrible against smaller ships (which have low mass) while crippling larger ones (which have very high mass) unless the large ships can gain enough speed (in which case nothing will be able to stop large ships from webbing each other and just cruise along at ridiculous speeds laughing).

- Afterburners, Microwarpdrives, and any other speed enhancement mod would have to be re-thought. They all add a certain percentage to the top velocity of a ship (and then some)... but what will they do now? Adding acceleration could be something... but it would only further complicate the problems inherent with flying in frictionless environment... which is un-intuitive to those who have not skated on ice before.

- close range battles will become a thing of the past (maneuvering will be tedious remember?). The only reliable way to damage someone will be with missiles, maybe drones, or shooting guns from extreme range.


Area Effect weapons would be the weapon of choice so you know you won't miss.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#29 - 2013-11-11 06:17:54 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Caviar Liberta wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
The problem with real physics is that they are terrible from a gameplay perspective.

- No top speed means that the only limiting factor on ships is mass/inertia... which makes maneuvering a VERY tedious and boring affair for large ships in addition to chaotic and frustrating for smaller ships (I can definitely see overshooting or flying right past the target being a problem).

- Stasis Webifiers would be useless (as they reduce max speeds) unless they are based on some other principle. Making them affect mass might do the trick... but that would make them terrible against smaller ships (which have low mass) while crippling larger ones (which have very high mass) unless the large ships can gain enough speed (in which case nothing will be able to stop large ships from webbing each other and just cruise along at ridiculous speeds laughing).

- Afterburners, Microwarpdrives, and any other speed enhancement mod would have to be re-thought. They all add a certain percentage to the top velocity of a ship (and then some)... but what will they do now? Adding acceleration could be something... but it would only further complicate the problems inherent with flying in frictionless environment... which is un-intuitive to those who have not skated on ice before.

- close range battles will become a thing of the past (maneuvering will be tedious remember?). The only reliable way to damage someone will be with missiles, maybe drones, or shooting guns from extreme range.


Area Effect weapons would be the weapon of choice so you know you won't miss.

Burn everything. It's the only way to be sure. Twisted
Gothikia
Le Goobers
#30 - 2013-11-11 06:31:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Gothikia
Neeko Demus wrote:
As a physicist I can't help myself but to think "This is so wrong", everytime I undock.
No top speed, no limits?
As the only top speed in the universe is the speed of light in vacuum, space ships at non-relativistic velocities (<30% Lightspeed) have no need to stop accelerating at max 5 km/s (~0.0017% Lightspeed) or lower. But what happens, if a player sets his vessel to max acceleration and goes afk for a couple of hours?


First:

Warp Field Mechanics 101 - Nasa Technical Report.
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20110015936_2011016932.pdf

Since you're not actually moving within a warp bubble (and lets assume you're creating a bubble all the time for the sake of argument) then acceleration and inertia wouldn't matter so much.

Second: It's a game and would be really unbalanced and screwed since EVE wasn't designed for it at the start. Also, it would require more server resources on Tranquility to calculate all of this stuff and send it to our clients. For CCP, ten and a half years into it, it ain't worth it.

Quote:
Fights at high velocities

Lets consider this one under point one also, for the sake of argument.

I think you answered the rest at the end of your post. Spaceflight using proper physics can be exciting yes, in a different way, but in EVE it just wouldn't work. For games to be enjoyable, you have to suspend your disbelief every now and then.

I'm assuming you don't play Mass Effect and say, "WELL, I'M A PHYSICIST AND NATURALLY THIS IS ALL SCREWED UP BECAUSE THERE IS NO EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE OF EXTRATERRESTRIAL BIOLOGICAL ENTITIES!" Blink Just enjoy it as it as :)

<3 Gothie

Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2013-11-11 07:26:49 UTC
Zuai wrote:
This game would be very difficult to play drunk

I always play in Hard Mode.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#32 - 2013-11-11 08:09:01 UTC
Johan Civire wrote:
The answer :

1 - Space is vacum so no rockets can be fire off. The need to have a gravity pull to do it.
Stopped there since I ran out of breath from the laughter. Lol
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2013-11-11 09:24:45 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Johan Civire wrote:
The answer :

1 - Space is vacum so no rockets can be fire off. The need to have a gravity pull to do it.
Stopped there since I ran out of breath from the laughter. Lol

"Sounded a lot better and nerdy and factually correct in my head!"
Neeko Demus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-11-11 09:25:27 UTC
Space fights would be a mess because of recoil, to high velocities and so on...
As I tried to state in my first post, the only thing, that I would like to see changed is the behaviour of ships in space. I wouldn't touch pew pew for the same reasons already stated: It would be a major overhaul of the whole game. The same would apply to the ramming thing. Why change, what happens if ships collide? They just bump as they do today. Maybe tune the bumping mechanism, so the effect of the bump depends rather on acceleration than on velocity. (I know very well, that it would violate the conservation of momentum, but I don't care because it's a game...)

Fights at high velocities are not different to the fights we know, as long as all vessels are moving in the same direction with nearly the same velocity. So the only scenario is, what happens, if a ship is flying with a high velocity, and another ship warps to it. Either the moving ship shoots away from it, the very moment the intercepting ship drops out of warp, or the intercepting ship has to drop out of warp with the same velocity as the moving ship.

Einsteins relativistic physics invalidate newton physics
That's the worst crap, I have read in this thread. Special Relativity contains newton physics as limit case for low velocities. Einstein hasn't falsified newton dynamics, but has expanded it.

MWD, Webifiers and so on
I would change all the modules, that have an effect on max velocity to apply the same effect onto acceleration. This way, MWDs would continue boosting and webbers would decrease the velocity, at which a ship can orbit an other at a given radius, making it thus easier to hit.
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-11-12 03:03:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Johan Civire
Tippia wrote:
R...

Stopped there since I ran out of breath from the laughter. Lol


Me to because you watch to many star trek movies.

And clearly this is not your cup of tea.

Yah you can fire rockets in vacuum space...... NOT there is no air to travel in and the have no impact to any object in space. Because there is no gravity to make the impact.

but that's not to point to say how stupid your answer is. But he some one try to insult people clearly,, you.... go back in your cave and stay there.
Reiisha
#36 - 2013-11-12 03:16:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Reiisha
Johan Civire wrote:
Tippia wrote:
R...

Stopped there since I ran out of breath from the laughter. Lol


Me to because you watch to many star trek movies.

And clearly this is not your cup of tea.

Yah you can fire rockets in vacuum space...... NOT there is no air to travel in and the have no impact to any object in space. Because there is no gravity to make the impact.

but that's not to point to say how stupid your answer is. But he some one try to insult people clearly,, you.... go back in your cave and stay there.


You really need to go look up Newton's laws and go back to middle school... This is very basic physics you're missing. Newton's third law is the one you're looking for.

Modern rockets also don't need air to function to burn their fuel either, fyi.

Thank you for providing me with both a good laugh aswell as good proof as to why the school system is failing quite badly.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...

Richard Ramlrez
Doomheim
#37 - 2013-11-12 03:42:36 UTC
Ignorance is bliss. If you play a game like Sheldon Cooper then you will probably be frustrated while doing a form of entertainment.

Forget what you know and just accept magic in games.
stoicfaux
#38 - 2013-11-12 06:25:11 UTC
Johan Civire wrote:
Tippia wrote:
R...

Stopped there since I ran out of breath from the laughter. Lol


Me to because you watch to many star trek movies.

And clearly this is not your cup of tea.

Yah you can fire rockets in vacuum space...... NOT there is no air to travel in and the have no impact to any object in space. Because there is no gravity to make the impact.

but that's not to point to say how stupid your answer is. But he some one try to insult people clearly,, you.... go back in your cave and stay there.

1. Stop posting.
2. Read this site. http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/index.php
3. ???
4. Profit!

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Mr Pragmatic
#39 - 2013-11-12 07:00:20 UTC
It be more fun to have super long range battles, things like radar and scouts would be alot more entertaining. I think it is kind of silly that even though its the future we are brawling at ranges that are close.

Super cali hella yolo swaga dopeness.  -Yoloswaggins, in the fellowship of the bling.

Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-11-12 08:28:32 UTC
Johan Civire wrote:


Yah you can fire rockets in vacuum space...... NOT there is no air to travel in and the have no impact to any object in space. Because there is no gravity to make the impact.


Wait, are you the guy that said that gyro's wouldn't work in space because there is no air a couple of months ago?

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.