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Pulse Tachyon Laser, or abusing laser weapons with a Mobile Depot
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stoicfaux
#1 - 2013-11-10 00:35:51 UTC
Can we combine the Pulse and Beam lasers into just one laser gun? We can right click to determine whether we want to fire it as a Pulse laser or as a Beam laser.

I ask this because dropping a mobile depot and swapping out between Mega Pules and Tachyons and having to regroup and reload them is a bit manual (i.e. tedious.) I like having the ability to swap out between short and long range weapons on a moment's notice (e.g. in a mission) and thereby making the age old question of "What's better, Tachyons or Pulses?" moot, but if we're going to throw fitting decisions out of the window, can we at least reduce the risk of developing RSI?

On a side note, didn't CCP say that macros you execute while at the keyboard are okay?

Big smile

tl;dr - The ability of lasers to instantly swap ammo, combined with Mobile Depots fitting ability is potentially "abusive" or "bad game design" now that laser users can now "insta-swap" between long and short range lasers.

OTOH, I can now see "offensive" dropping of mobile depots to deny others the ability to refit on the fly (since depots cannot be deployed within 6km of each other.)


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#2 - 2013-11-10 05:16:56 UTC
There's a button on your HUD. It looks like an infinity symbol. Clicking that will automatically group all your weapons. Then you can right-click and load your ammo.

This is how I handle that specific situation when refitting different guns in mid-fight.
Mer88
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-11-10 21:44:41 UTC
i think the mobile refit is lame if you can use it in mid combat. they need to fix it with a 30s or 1 min timer before you can refit after any combat action.

i can see it being abused to infinity switching to 4 resist mods while tanking then change 2 resist for a shield booster and shield amp to repair then change back to 4 resist. or equip a jump drive so you can jump 100km to kill some mobs then jump back to refit.

eve is always about making choices with pros and cons. the mobile depot is all pro no con. if you dont use it you lose out. it should at least need a high slot module or a rig to be able to use it.
SOL Ranger
Imperial Armed Forces
#4 - 2013-11-11 00:03:44 UTC
Mer88 wrote:

...
eve is always about making choices with pros and cons. the mobile depot is all pro no con. if you dont use it you lose out. it should at least need a high slot module or a rig to be able to use it.


An alternative should be created:

Maintenance Crane
High slot, 2000PG, 100CPU, 100GJ/s.
Allows fitting and removal of modules(no rigs or subsystems) on your ship while active, every alteration takes 20s to complete, cannot remove itself.
Activating the crane on a locked target within 2500m will allow the target ship to refit freely if it so chooses.
If the crane is stopped before the operation is complete the operation must be restarted, any damage taken by either the host or target vessel while refitting will stop the operation immediately, the module in question will notably be left offline.

Mobile Depot
The mobile depot should have an increased deployment time of 30 minutes and a repackaging time of 5 minutes(cannot scoop until repackaged), after repackaging the structure itself and its contents are contained in a container.
Any damage taken during its use will disconnect you from the structure fitting service and prohibit its use for 60s.

Results:

  • Provides battleships with reasonable refitting capabilities on the go for solo/fleet work.
  • Maintenance crane capabilities have a genuine cost, can be used in combat for a cost but only when not being directly shot at.
  • Mobile depot users need to plan further ahead, 30m ahead even; While it still being free to use, taking no fitting costs, permanent, instant modifications, allowing rig changes and providing storage space.
  • Small changes will be more practical to do with the Maintenance Crane, large changes you would want the Mobile depot if you're at all going to stay around the area for a while.

    • The Vargur requires launcher hardpoints, following tempest tradition.
    Alvatore DiMarco
    Capricious Endeavours Ltd
    #5 - 2013-11-11 02:21:32 UTC
    Those of you complaining about the ability to refit in combat are forgetting that this is exactly what already happens whenever carriers are on the field.
    stoicfaux
    #6 - 2013-11-11 02:28:20 UTC
    Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
    Those of you complaining about the ability to refit in combat are forgetting that this is exactly what already happens whenever carriers are on the field.

    Yes, but... you don't need an expensive, skill intensive carrier in this case. Plus, a carrier implies organization, i.e. player interaction, whereas the Mobile Depot [s]is[s/] can be a solo thing.


    A couple of minutes on google and now I have some free macro software that records mouse movement as well as keystrokes. So, I'll see what I can see in a bit, kids and wife willing.

    Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
    Mer88
    Royal Amarr Institute
    Amarr Empire
    #7 - 2013-11-11 17:28:18 UTC
    i just tested it and it doesnt feel like eve anymore. it doesnt reward good fit ships with this device. you can put in any crap modules on your ship as long as you have the proper modules in the cargo bay you will still do fine. Also, you can put cap rechargers or flux foil in ship while under light dps to recharge cap then quickly put in the tank modules . it is cheating i hate this. this thing will benefit marauder the most with bastion module and huge cargo bay. Something should be done about this.
    stoicfaux
    #8 - 2013-11-11 17:52:48 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
    Yeah, it's a bit of an odd feeling. Things for mission runners and PvE to macro:

    * swapping between long and short range weapons (works best with lasers b/c of insta-ammo swapping)
    * swapping out passive modules for more tank or better repper
    * swapping out a mid for a cap booster (but you'll need to wait on 10 second load cycle.)
    * swapping out the lows and a mid for an MWD and nanos
    * if suicide gankers arrive, press a button to swap out passive modules for a buffer tank and a DCU.
    ** swapping out the lows for warp core stabs while being warp scram'd by suicide gankers?
    * swapping out the probe launcher and the three scanning mid modules for hacking, firepower and/or tank mods
    * lost a drone? replace it from your cargo instead of relying on a tiny drone bay.
    * swap out those big sentry drones depending on the target's range despite having a limited drone bay. (e.g. wardens for range, gardes up close.)

    You don't even need to have the modules in the Mobile Depot . I've been pulling/putting modules from/in a container to keep them out of the general cargo bay.


    Any module with no or short cycle/cooldown is subject to "insta-swapping" via macros and the Mobile Depot. Should be interesting to see how long it takes people to start macro'ing in droves.

    Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
    Kirkwood Ross
    Golden Profession
    #9 - 2013-11-11 19:51:49 UTC
    That is very odd. I thought ccp stated that while a pilot had the one minute weapons timer they were unable to change fitting with a mobile depot or any service in space.
    stoicfaux
    #10 - 2013-11-11 20:13:50 UTC
    Kirkwood Ross wrote:
    That is very odd. I thought ccp stated that while a pilot had the one minute weapons timer they were unable to change fitting with a mobile depot or any service in space.

    Do you have a source for that?

    The Bastion module creates a one minute weapons timer, plus I'm sitting in bastion mode in a level 3 mission with NPC aggro and I'm still able to refit without problem.

    Either it's a bug, it's not been implemented yet, or you are misremembering?

    Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
    Abdiel Kavash
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #11 - 2013-11-11 20:45:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
    I actually like the fact that maximizing your efficiency in mission no longer comes down to blinged out fits and following a script off a website, but to managing your fitting on the fly to always have the right modules for the job - whether that's tanking the initial spawn, taking down tackle frigates, or nuking battleships - all of these will require a slightly different fitting and an active person behind the keyboard. Not just watching youtube on the other screen and occasionally hitting F1 for the next target.

    As far as refitting in actual combat, using the spaceyurt sacrifices mobility - you have to stay within 5k of it at all times to refit. Additionally you risk much more modules (and they yurt itself) to lose, and that even if you successfully run away.



    Macro use would become obsolete if you could use the fitting tool to refit using modules in your cargo when near a mobile fitting service (I don't know whether this is the case now.)